New Speakers and Kicker Key on 22 - a few questions

New to the forums, go easy on me! Have a 22 SR5 with 8" non premium.

I read and read and read some more, then read again. I have an idea of what I want to do based on all my research but I have a few questions that I can't seam to find a clear answer for by just searching and reading so I thought I'd just ask them outright.

On the speakers:

I see so many people doing the subaru/kicker tweeters in the dash and then putting coaxial speakers in the front doors... mostly following the advice and writeups of so many others that have come before them. I put new coaxials in the last car I upgraded that also had dash tweeters and it was too much tweeter .. like way too much. I ended up disconnecting the dash ones alltogether. So first question: Why aren't more people replacing their fronts with components and putting the matched component tweeter in the dash instead of the subaru/kicker one? All the options I am looking at on crutchfield include the bracket adapter and harnesses to fit them in the dash location for free .. so I guess I'm looking for someone to tell me why I should buy the subaru/kicker tweeters and a coaxial door speakers instead of just getting a component set for the front.

On the Key:

Originally before they changed the plugs on the entune radios, it seemed like a lot of people were powering the Key off the radio 20A circuit. Now it seems everyone is running a separate power through the firewall from the battery. Is that because after the harness change there is not an easy way to tap the radio power with the new harnesses?

Also as far as harnesses .. most of the threads seem to point to needing the add-an-amp or add-a-sub harness kits from t-tunes .. however I have occasionally seen this Amazon harness mentioned:

$14 RED WOLF Add AMP Amplifier Subwoofer Speaker Wiring T-Harness Radio Stereo Plug Connector Compatible with Toyota 2018-2022 Camry RAV4 Tacoma Corolla Non-JBL System

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DTY8PMD .. can that be used instead of the t-tunes one? I haven't found a definitive answer on that.

Thanks in advance for any help on these!

 

You are 100% correct on too much tweeter. I started with DS18s in dash and kicker CS 6x9s in front doors. Was not bad until I added the amp. Way too harsh on the highs after that. Swapped out to Kenwood components with silk domes in the stock tweeter location and 7" in door Bi Amped off Kicker Key sounds way better. Probably going to swap out the 7" Kenwoods for a 6x9 woofer at some point. The key is a good solution if you're looking for ease and mild upgrade, honestly If I was going to do it again I'd go 75x4 or 100x4 with DSP. I'm running a Key 500.1 for the sub at 2ohms into a downfiring Kicker 10" which is PLENTY of bass for my access cab. It's possible to run the KEy off the radio harness but you're far better off pulling larger cable thru firewall. 8 gauge is plenty to run a Key and it's an easy run.

Someone with way more knowledge than me should be along shortly to help. There a few guys in here with excellent knowledge and advice. I'm not one of them lol

 

Evening,

I originally ran kicker coax in my door and put a kicker midrange (not tweeter) in the dash run by the stock head unit. It was loud, but not great. I would highly recommend doing the component system with active crossovers. You will get a better stage simulation this way.

My component has a 6 1/2 round woofer in the doors and mounted the tweeter on the inner mirror cover. If you spend a bit up front for a good set with the crossover it should be nice set up. Definitely spend a few extra dollars to wrap the doors in sound pad or some other type of hush mat.

I took it further though and picked up an alpine mid range 2 3/4 to go in the dash. It sets up a nice stage. I also have 6 1/2 woofers in rear door and a 12” sub behind the driver rear passenger seat. 2 alpines power the system so I went full out.

 

what you're not seeing is the ease of installation. the kicker tweeters plug in. just as the coaxials do in the doors. just like those 'custom led tail lights' every ebay seller sells the same variation of. it's not custom. it's just different. fewer and fewer people want to get into anything that takes more than 1 screwdriver and 15-30 minutes to alter.

component speakers are definitely going to be better. even the absolute cheapest, least-known-brand garbage is going to be better than the stock speakers or the kicker tweeter 'upgrade'. the difference here is that component speakers take a lot more work-- like the full part of a lazy saturday with a case of beer and buddies stopping by to 'help'. most just simply don't want to put that kind of work' in.

i would highly recommend exactly what you're thinking of doing-- get a component set of speakers.

the disadvantage to keeping the stock head unit is trying to interrupt the signals, and figure out where/when to put the crossovers in the signal path.

i like the t-tunes speaker adapter method. order their tweeter harnesses, and cut them up, then jam the crossovers into the dash near the tweeters-- with that harness, you get the main input, as well as the woofer output to the door. just need to add tweeter wiring off the new crossover, which most kits include some wiring anyways. it doesn't require getting behind the radio, and is easily removable without issues to the radio as well.

there's also a tweeter harness of the same variety on Amazon under a few different names but all look the same, though my fear with that one is that the wires coming off of it to break out the main audio feed and the door woofer are extremely short.

i've always highly recommended running any aftermarket power equipment straight off the battery. we aren't privy to the design parameters of the stock wiring capacity, and most vehicle circuits also power other gear that aren't always clearly on the circuit labeling scheme. could it work? sure. but then i just worked at a person's house that nearly burned down because their dad that replaced the electrical panel never tightened all his connections properly-- it did work. it worked for about 5-8 years from what i could tell. but when they called me, it was because light bulbs and printers were suddenly smoking...

i can't answer the harness question, however if i state 'OF COURSE, THAT ONE ALWAYS WORKS', someone will be by shortly to prove me wrong

 

Thanks for the detailed responses.

This seems like the way to go - I feel like I need to order from crutch and take stock of all the adapters they send then see what else I need .. I think this and the add-a-sub, or that Amazon harness for the key will likely be the only other ones I need. Is there enough room in the dash for stuffing the crossovers? .. I've read some people putting the crossovers in the kickpanel instead .. ttunes also locates them there in their install videos.

 

The other thing I was contemplating, probably stupid idea, was for the "ease of install" to do the subaru kicker tweeter upgrade, then put a component 6x9 in the door and just not hookup the tweeter.

 

The Kicker/Subaru tweeters are so popular because it is an easy and low cost improvement to the stock system.
They elevate the stock system from pretty dreadful to reasonably OK which is enough to make many folks satisfied.

 

can also make your own adapters really easily. my tweeter adapters were about 2 hours start to finish, with tons of measurements,
documentation, and picture-taking. could've knocked them out under an hour without all that. used an oscillating tool, and a drill with a holesaw. door adapters were a little more work-- used just a circular saw, and router for those.

as far as fitting in the dash, it really depends on the crossover. most aren't gonna fit. there's a duct that runs under the seat-side of the tweeter hole that restricts depth to 2" for the first 1/3 of the tweeter opening, from there it opens up to about 4" depth.

i had no issues fishing wire down off the tweeter spots to more accessible locations in the kick panel area, so extending the 4-wire tweeter harness while also adding another pair of tweeter wires would be feasible to move a crossover in the kick panels as well.

if you were only doing tweeters, and were handy with a soldering iron, tweeter crossovers would definitely fit, and the stock tweeter connectors are extremely easy to mod for the purpose. i'm full active now, so i had to run new wire to the tweeters off the hu, and then just jumper the door speaker tweeter wires to get the door speakers working. if i ever need to put stuff back to stock, i'll just resolder the connectors to the tweeters. but the tweeter capacitor has fully exposed terminals meaning things could be adjusted if one were so motivated.

 

OP, I am in the midst of a similar project on my 2022. A few notes on your questions....

1. My current setup uses

$250 Kicker 47KSS6904 KS Series 6x9 Component System with 1" Tweeters, 4ohm

Kicker 47KSS6904 components in the front doors. I have the tweeters pod-mounted on the triangular "sail panels" at the top of the front doors.


I also have

$60 Kicker 47KSC2704 2.75" Mid-Range Speakers, 4ohm with Brackets for Select GM/Chrysler/Subaru/Jeep and Toyota Included

Kicker 47KSC2704 midranges in the factory dash locations.

I have made a couple of minor modifications. The Kicker components include a high pass (12db) for the 1" tweeters at 4,000 Hz, but they send a full range signal to the 6 x 9 woofers. I added a 4,000 Hz (12 db) low pass filter to the 6 x 9's. The 47KSC2704 midranges come from Kicker with 285 Hz (6 db) high pass caps, but I didn't use them. I used 800 Hz - 5,000 Hz (6db) band pass filters instead. The jury is still out, with the tweeters in pod mounts, there is no way to aim them other than straight at your face. The sound is a little bright, and tends to overpower the mids in the dash. I just finished it this weekend, so I'm running it for now and playing with EQ settings to see if I warm up to it. The jury is still out. I went with the Kickers because I prefer the sound of silk tweeters, and I can't afford a nice set of Morels. I'm not a fan of putting coax speakers in the doors, because I prefer the sound stage to be in front of me, rather than down by my ankles.

2. I used the Key 200.4 and tapped the factory harness 20A 12V+ and ground. No issues. HOWEVER, I am getting a very faint hiss that most casual listeners wouldn't hear. I will probably do something else with the ground to see if I can eliminate it. It is possible that the noise is just part of life with a Key. The Key only puts out 50 watts per channel, if you like your music loud, you will probably be dissatisfied. I would probably be regretting it if I hadn't also done a soundproofing project on the truck. With my lower ambient noise, and the fact that I don't crank the music up all that much....the Key is sufficient for what I need.

The speaker harness you linked is the exact one that I used. It worked fine.

@soundman98 has a photo that shows the cap on the factory dash speaker. It is a 2.2 uf cap. It is the reason why people get so excited over the Subaru and/or DS18 dash speaker swap. That little cap is a high pass filter that causes the factory speaker to start attenuating sound on a 6 db slope at about 18,000 Hz. In simple terms, there isn't very much coming from the speaker, unless you are a dog. If you have good hearing, your upper limit is close to 20,000 Hz. If you are using MP3s recorded at 128 kbps, the MP3 compression has already collapsed almost everything that high to begin with. With so little unattenuated sound coming from the factory speaker, swapping a Subaru / DS18 speaker that has a high pass closer to the 6,000 Hz range would make a very noticeable difference. The sound would improve generally, and the sound stage would move up quite a bit as well. For a quick and easy swap, that is probably the best bang for your buck, especially if you don't plan on doing anything more extensive. I went a different direction, but I totally understand why someone would do this.

As always, music and sound are personal tastes....YMMV.

 

i see you're already playing with parts express goodies given your preference indicated in this quote, i'd highly recommend playing with some of the sub-$30 silk domes in the dayton lineup. though recently i branched off and have been trying some ayiama ring radiator tweeters(not extremely impressed, but just noticed today, i haven't noticed they existed for the past 2 days), because i've been particularly impressed with the peerless ring radiators.

personally, i've always found automotive branded tweeters to be excessively bright, and stepping into the home audio tweeters has offered a lot more options more inline with my preferences, which don't sound all that different from yours.

 

Kind of the big reason not to use home audio drivers is that they are not designed with the extreme environmental factors present in mobile audio in mind. This is part of the reason they are also more inexpensive.

Regarding brightness, same factor applies somewhat since most factory locations are off axis, but there are great sounding tweeters to be had, just not in brands most people are attracted to like Kicker or Focal or most of the affordable offerings from average Joe brands. You have to pay great attention to the materials and a lot of car audio tweeters are plastic, some are metal (higher powered applications), neither being suitable for accuracy or sounding soft.

 

what i've found instead is that it seems it's more about a focus on installation design, and pushing consumers up-market to 'better offerings' by crippling lower cost options-- car audio specific drivers tend to be more compact until getting into the extreme high end of the spectrum where drivers can easily be $350/each. but that also means that they lack things like the tweeters having a rear resonance chamber, and in the midbasses, copper shorting rings(faraday rings) that in my experience greatly reduce distortion problems.

while some of the extreme environmental factors definitely present a longevity problem to some driver materials and cone/coil/magnet configurations, i'm not convinced that it's as much a barrier as many make it seem, nor do i believe that the materials are as different as they make it seem either. i've had a set of peerless hds nomex cone midbasses that have been installed in 4 different vehicles over the past 10 years. only on the first install for 3 years did i do anything for attempting to protect them from rain within the doors. every subsequent install afterwards i just bolt them into the doors and go. they sound just as good in that first car as they do in the tacoma, and i've had zero issues with their potential pitfalls with the open venting to the magnetic gap(i really thought i would). i also installed a set of dayton esoterics about 5 years ago in my other vehicle out of curiousity, which the cone and surround are built identical to most higher-end car audio designs... but tweeters should really be effected even less so-- every dome tweeter design(silk, titanium, beryllium) is entirely sealed--major problems for them are going to be uv damage and thermal cycling, which can still be an issue with repeated sunny days through a window in a house as well.

this question did get me curious, so i started googling the differences:

-most of the internet seems to say that car audio speakers are different because they're different.
-all of the internet experts agree the impedance is different--which is irrelevant to me, due to using aftermarket and adjustable amplifiers. digging further into this, it appears most of the 'experts' are approaching this from a home audio perspective, and continue on stating that many home audio amps are 8ohm capable only, so car audio speakers simply won't work in that arena.
-some say they're optimized for small enclosures, which, if anyone's ever measured the airspace within doors these days, they're anything but 'small' enclosures, though 'enclosure' is a bit generous as well in this respect. i'd prefer to call it 'restrictive free-air'...

the last time i seriously debated this question was the 10 years ago that resulted in those peerless hds'. i was faced with a choice-- i could spend $300 on those and some dayton tweeters, or after a ton of car audio brand speaker demo's, i was seriously looking at something nearing $5000 in hybrid audio technology drivers. i went with the peerless really just out of a curiosity of 'how bad could they really be?'. btw, the tweeters are still working, i just got bored with them and wanted to try some other versions. it wasn't to prove i could really do better, just was essentially 'pocket change' to try to match the performance of what i was supposed to be getting from the car audio arena.

speakers are simple devices. cone, surround, magnet, coil, spider, basket. the real trick is to not tell them where they're installed! then they work fine!