Tractors, Mowers, Chippers, Trailers, Chainsaws, Generators, Boat Engines, Flood Control, & Census.

Patients is a virtue...

 

Well looking on Marketplace there's several of those tillers new in box that people have already got in my area. So, if it doesn't get to the store by Tuesday I'm going to try and cancel the order and get a refund. At this point I can use the $200 for other things. Tired of playing the shipping wait game when it has almost been a month since I placed my order. Not me being impatient, just tired of the game of it'll be here on this day, wait no, this day...

 

Its all there and tight. Broke an intake bolt off on the cylinder, luckily leaving a little nubb sticking out I'll try to get some vise grips on it, if I can get it running. Im going to file and adjust the points next. If thats a no go, I’m tapping out, which sucks because I like old stuff.

 

Yikes, what’s it doing?

Ferris update for the day:

Anyone following knows I traced my no power issue to the seat switch. Jumped it and got power back to the two relays, one of which closes and powers the second relay. First is for safety circuits, once closed sends power to the starter solenoid when the key is turned.

So I jumped out the (now fried) seat switch, both relays close but still nothing out of the starter. So I grabbed my jumper harness and went battery + to solenoid and it fired right up. Great.

The orange/orange green stripe is safety circuit. Goes through the neutral safety switches for the hydro controls and parking brake and seat switch (that got fried by the shorted stator) Once I jumped that part of the seat switch I got power back to the relays. Perfect.

Yellow wire runs from key switch, through seat switch, and when the SECOND (safety switch) relay closes it sends ground to the first relay to energize. Yellow 30 terminal closes to brown on the 87 output of the starter relay to send battery + to the solenoid and start the motor.

The relay is closing for the starter, I can hear it and feel it. However the power isn’t making it through the relay to the solenoid. The brown wire ohms out as good between the solenoid and the relay block, so I’m going to guess the terminal in the relay block is trashed. I’ll try to pinch it closed, or just cut out and replace it with a new terminal.

Since I diagnosed this, it’s easy enough to place a short jumper between the 30 and 87 on the starter relay and it’ll fire right up.


I was determined to get the mower back to the same state of running before installing the new stator and voltage regulator. One problem at a time so it’s easier to trace.

Tomorrow I’ll make it right and begin the new parts install. Now that I’ve gone though this, I feel significantly more comfortable with the wiring on these machines. After studying the wiring diagram, it makes diagnosis MUCH easier.

/Long winded update

 

The weak link is often the control arm switches. Try flopping the arms in and out a couple of times. See if the starter engages better after putting the arms out.

Sometimes cycling those arm switches helps with continuity.

The start circuit has to make a long trip thru the arm and break switch. Amps are lost when there is poor continuity.

The starter solenoid can show 12+ volts, but if there is not enough amps to push that voltage to the starter windings, all you get is that dreaded, click, click, click .

 

Awesome, thanks for the heads up. I already worked the switches a good bit. I’ll spray some contact cleaner in them tomorrow to see if that helps. If I simply jump the 30->87 terminal with the starter relay removed, the machine starts right up. That’s what lead me to a smoked terminal as the diagnosis.

It looks to me like as long as the safety relay closes, the +12v path is key switch->jumped seat switch-> starter relay 30->87 -> solenoid.

Even still, chances are they’ve never been cleaned in the past.

 

If your main purpose is to flip the tiller, then it's not a big deal to cancel it, however, if you are planning to keep it for personal use. You'd be hard-pressed to get such a good deal again.

 

@shaeff Yikes, what’s it doing?
It just spins the engine, no ignition, spins easy like it’s got zero compression.

They told me I had to buy a new carb last time.

I think they are baffled by it and haven’t actually diagnosed it at all.

 

That SUCKS! What motor is on it?

 

Toro 452cc.

I thought it was a rebranded B&S but it turns out to be a Toro engine.

 

Damn, sorry to hear. Especially on a new mower.

 

Got the new stator onto the Ferris last night. Cleaned out the flywheel magnets, got the flywheel back on. This thing ain’t built like that Kawasaki 23 it replaced. Tiny little stator, plastic ring gear. Oof.
Anyway, hoping to have it back together today. I also think that Kirk @koditten nailed it, thinking it’s a safety circuit issue not a starter relay issue.

When I turn key to start, the safety relay opens preventing the starter relay from closing and powering the solenoid.

Going to jump out the whole safety circuit and one by one reconnect to see which is at fault.

I can simply jump the 30->87 terminals on the starter relay and it starts, or from battery to solenoid does the same thing.

 

I was within an hour of calling them to go through the cancelation and refund process

 

Unboxed and assembled. Added oil and topped up the gear lube. Forgot I was out of gas and I don't feel like running into the next town for ethanol free so break in will have to wait till next week.



Neat little machine. Definitely smaller than I thought it would be, but for my use fine. Interested to see how the Chinese Honda clone engine is gonna run. I imagine pretty decent from my experience on other ones.

 

Ferris update: one day I’ll get it to 100%. Until then, I’ll continue to post my issues for entertainment purposes:

No pics, up against the clock. All back together, charging 13.52v.

Now it sounds like it’s only running on one cylinder Can’t catch a break. Choppy sounding and smells very rich out the exhaust. Put it back in the shed tonight, potential rain coming.

It’s got crappy Amazon Chinese plugs in it, I’ve got a new set of RC12YC’s for it. I’m hoping it’s just a garbage plug. Getting tired of chasing issues on this thing.

In the meantime I have a jumper across 30-87 on the starter relay. Turn the key, it starts. It’ll be like that until I get time to trace everything again.

 

If anyone has a newer Cub Cadet and is having trouble finding their proprietary S blades, might I recommend checking out swapping your spindles for a more common pattern.

I was having some major issues with the cheap thin OEM blades wearing out the lift portion of the blade very fast. I wore out a set of blades in 15 hrs to the point that they barely discharged as they had no lift left despite being "Ultra high" lift blades. The sand had just worn them down to nothing.

I installed new spindles with the 6pt Star pattern. A set of 3 blades is normally $80. I got 3 spindles and 3 blades for $130. Not only did I get new blades, but for another $50 over OEM blades, I've opened up a much larger selection of blades. If the spindles end up being junk and need replaced every year or two, I am still saving money by not buying CC's OEM junk blades.

$130 8TEN Spindle Medium-Lift Blade Kit for MTD Cub Cadet 54" Deck RZT L54 S54 LX54 GT54 SX54 G8400 G8600 T310

8TEN spindles on Amazon

The blades are noticeably heavier despite being not much thicker. They also drastically improved lift/discharge and I finally have a clean cut yard again.

This Pic is after about 10 hrs. After 15 hrs, the lift portion was even worse!

 

That is SAD. Are they made of old recycled Yugos and Taco frames?

And you are correct, my push mowers have thicker blades on them then those things. It would take about three of those to make one blade on my Kubota. [I'm feeling pretty gracious this morning]

 

Wow, that's strange. I have a somewhat recent Cub Cadet and it has the regular star pattern blades.

I would caution on those spindles though. I put a set on mine and they are kind of chincey. The grease fitting is laughable on sealed bearings as well. I've had mine on since April, but haven't really mowed that much this year due to dry weather.

 

Watch your carb replacements.

I picked up a replacement carb off Amazon.

After installation, the engine ran perfect. Hats off to a cheap replacement carb manufacturers.

The only issue was when I shut the engine down to install the air filter, I looked down the air intake and noticed liquid gasoline trickling into the carb intake.

Needless to say, the carb had to come off.

The fuel shut off solinoid was not seating in the orfice correctly.

Luckily I had another bowl assembly with a correctly functioning fuel shut off solinoid.