Best 12 gauge shotgun for under $300??

IMO the 500 and 870 are neck and neck as far as performance & reliability. I lean 870 for my own reasons out of those to but prefer my 11-87 to either one for various reasons.

What sort of 'issues' is he having with ammo? Other than short-stroking the action the list of shell-dependent issues one can have with an 870 or a 500 for that matter.

 

No worries. I understand. I'm not trying to bag on you. I should have considered my emoticons a little better I get where you're coming from and I know you know what you're talking about. In conclusion I believe beers need to be had all around. Seems only fitting

 

My Mossy 500 has had issues with cheap ass Seller & Beloit 2.75" 00 buck shot. The round didn't want to slide into the chamber all the time. Everything has had no problems.

 

You know what, after some more though - I think he might have a 500 also. He has issues with Winchester aluminum jamming. But like I said, all the shells his didn't like, mine ate right up. I've never had any feeding/eject issues with any shells.

 

Years ago I picked up the Mossberg 500 security combo - two barrels, pistol grip, wood stock, and heatshield. It's a great package and gives me greater flexibility with the weapon. At home, I leave it in the short barrel, pistol grip configuration.
The package was $200 many years ago, but it's up to $399 these days. Still not a bad deal considering you can use the same gun for hunting, skeet and home defense.

 

Remington 870 super mag

 

Why not?

The first shot they will get will hopefully be the last and that is the 1st magnum round. The 2nd and 3rd shot are the bird shot followed by magnum then two more bird shot. The magnum is more for me because I can aim and shoot a gun a lot better than anyone that stays in my house usually. If they miss with the magnum then the 2 bird shot following should do the trick in my eyes.

 

Why not? Because playing shell-type-roulette when lives are on the line & decision making is at a premium isn't a wise plan.

You're over thinking it. Just load with a good quality 00 buckshot that you have fired enough to know the pattern at various ranges. Also know that with training you want to cut your range of that load off to about 20-25yds (less in some instances) and THAT is when you'll want to go to slugs if you feel the need to engage 20-100yds. Slugs weren't designed for CQB and I'll take the likelihood of hitting something critical with 8/9 pellets of ~60gr 00 buckshot whereas if you fire a single slug and your shot isn't as true as you'd hope you're SOL.

As for the bird shot part... HORRIBLE idea. I see people talk about bird shot for self defense all the time for all sorts of reasons that are all complete internet folklore BS. For a projectile to be considered 'lethal' it must penetrate at last 12" into ballistic gel and birdshot pellets will not reliably do this. It will make a nasty superficial wound but if the threat is truly a threat he'll still be a threat until he bleeds out which will take several minutes in a best case scenario and they will likely survive what is a non-critical wound. I'm not saying impossible but it's a pellet designed for little winged birds... not the best option for big pissed guys. There are MUCH better options for this application available. That being said, you'd be amazed at how many sheets of rigid drywall it will blow right through so it's far from 'wall-safe' as you will hear some claim. Soft tissue absorbs energy differently and something with minimal inertia like birdshot pellets will dissipate most of it's energy rather quickly in soft tissue hence the lack of proper penetration to hit anything critical. We did a test one day with sheets of dry wall and various 12ga shell types and birdshot at SD ranges went right through several sheets stacked back to back and your home wall will have two between rooms spaced a few inches apart. Drywall is not ballistic gel/soft tissue.

If you're going to load a 12ga shotgun for HD load a quality 00 buckshot that you know well the pattern of at various HD ranges. If you like, keep a couple of slugs on a saddle or nearby ready to chamber if you need to engage out past 20-25yds depending on how your personal 12ga patterns at those distances. Some may want to switch to slugs at less than 20yds depending on the shotgun/shooter/circumstances. Once you switch to slugs you can engage out to 100yds or so but all that being said... the likelihood of NEEDING to engage out to 100yds for self defense is pretty much nonexistent & you may bring up new criminal/civil issues if you do. State laws vary but I would have a hard time shooting someone at 100yds with a slug and calling it self defense. I can't even imagine a scenario in which this would occur unless the BG is running down the street w/my wife over his shoulder but even then that's not likely a shot I'm taking. I'm a decent enough shot but I'm not a moron and RL =/= Hollywood.

As far as other people who have access to your firearm that don't know how to handle/fire it efficiently going through random shells in hopes that shell roulette is the answer... not even sure where to start with that if you don't already see it as a bad idea.

 

I vote 870. First 12 gauge I owned and has never let me down.

 

870 Best Bang for your buck for sure! Currently have three of them locked up in my safe! Keep it clean and put a little love into it and it will never let you down. Who is coming up with the idea of using bird shot for HOME defense? DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT USE BIRDSHOT FOR HOME DEFENSE. I'm not sure who started this dumb idea, but have you seen the actual impacts of birdshot. It is hard enough to drop a bird with a single pull of the trigger and get a clean kill with birdshot. Well Said Ostrichsak.

 

I've seen a guy get hit with bird shot at decently close range and he pretty much shrugged it off. Made him bleed, but near zero penetration. I would never use it for any situation where I actually needed to inflict damage on a person, much less one hopped up on bath salts and adrenaline. Buckshot all the way.

+1 for the 870. Every Mossberg I have ever touched has a very sloppy, loose feel to it. Remington is way more solid.

 

Headshot?

Not sure you can "shrug off" having your eyes blown out plus a few pellets banging around your brain cavity.

 

A BB gun will have more effect if your objective is to shoot out an eye. If that is your plan however I would argue that your plan is flawed to begin with.

 

No, upper body, mostly shoulder/chest/bicep area. You're going to have to press the muzzle against his head to get birdshot to enter the skull. If you are shooting at the head in a high-stress situation like a home invasion, you're either doing it wrong or you have done it a few times before. Always aim center mass unless you have specifically been trained to do otherwise.

An old coworker of mine's son was shot in the chest by a pellet gun. It penetrated his heart, which was way more than the birdshot did to that guy^^.

Sorry for getting off track, moral of the story is don't use birdshot for self defense because it's usless.

 

For close quarters I'm trained to identify the target, which means my eyes and gun sights will track to the head. If friendly, I stand down. Hostile, and I will pull the trigger without re-aiming. Center of mass is for a single bullet weapon at longer range.

 

So your training was to point a loaded and ready to go firearm at a 'target' in your own home before verifying if it's a threat or not? Man, I'm glad I'm not your family.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

This is how innocent people get shot in high-stress situations.

 

That's not what I said, but thanks for assuming you are some home defense master. You are not my family, and I'm glad of that.

 

That's exactly what you said.

 

Not at all trying to start If you haven't already, check out Magpul's Art of the Dynamic Shotgun. Trailer here - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1XCv0X6SqUg
Has some great drills and pointers to practice on your own or with your buddies at the range. One thing you may notice is the use of buckshot/slugs (not birdshot) and they train to shoot.... center mass... Great video series, but no amount of youtube or crazy tactical parts is a substitute for hands on training with *your* weapon the way *you* will use it when SHTF.