1st Gen Lunchtable Thread - General Discussion

also the overstep from 1-2nd on both trans is almost more a function of the 5VZ than the trans...

 

Yeah absolutely, I hadn't considered an even lower 1st and a less steep gradient from gear to gear... Makes something like the 8L80E an interesting proposition for a swap.

 

the way the Powerbnd matches to gear ratio and quantity of gears has a major impact on the perception of drivability.

I'm extremely pleased with the experience my powertrain config provides.

2GR revving out to ~7300rpm .69 hino 5th gear, 4.88 final drive. Compared to the factory 5VZ/A340F combo, its literally like a newer generation vehicle.

 

Yeah, I'm chasing higher revs on the 5VZ now, I think I can get it to 7200rpm easy enough oiling wise. Just want to make sure I'm not facing valve float.

 

yeah on paper the 8L90E and the ZF8 both have a fantastic spread with the ZF8HP51 (unsure if this can be changed to a 4x4 trans like the ZF8HP50 in lots of things, but notably the JL and JT) probably having the "ultimate" spread having excellent lower speed spread and great cruising spread sacrificing the mid speed performance "slightly" imo

 

I'd be willing to bet we could make a ZF8HP51 work, and I already know from tuning BMWs I can make that trans shift instantly (it can go gear to gear without unlocking the TC if you have ignition cut/retard configured)

 

I couldn't find any good dynos of a high revving 5VZ, but I can just pull a dyno sheet into my spreadsheet pretty easily if you have one

^also for whatever reason the ZF8 has a much better perception than the 8L90E from what I know, despite being used in so many shitty Chryslers lol

 

really any of the ZF8 variants would be a monstrous improvement from the A340F

 

ZF being used in Chryslers is more a product of Chrysler having never learned to build a trans themselves. It reflects positively on ZF that almost none of those have issues and the rest of the Mopar BS in the vehicle does still haha. ZF is an awesome drivetrain company though... and amazingly a non-profit.

 

The one upside of using a GM trans though is that the adapter already exists... that said the GM trans 8 and 10 speeds at least can also go gear to gear without unlocking the TC

 

Took a minute to add, but heres that ZF8HP51 vs A340F both with 5VZ and 4.10 fd. absolutely superior

 

Most expensive piece of paper is now hung

 

I feel that if bothering with a crazy trans upgrade I'd want to go with a similarly crazy pwt upgrade, but I guess your motor is as built as they come already

 

It's not super built but it makes good power for what it is. I would think about the crazy auto swap if I didn't already have a manual... there's really no reason to change from what I have already cause it's damn good already.

 

Can you explain the axis on the chart? I assume that your Y is rpm but that's not really making sense with having two points on the graph with different MPH (my assumption of the X) at the same RPM. Also hen you say 31s, are you rounding up on a 265/70/16? Sorry for the gauntlet of questions just trying to understand what I'm looking at and why things look slightly off from my own data.

 

.69 5th gear swap <------

 

Eh maybe if I was shorter geared in the diff. But where I sit now at 65-80 keeps me out of boost and I get good gas mileage on the hwy. I think taking that down would only hurt me cruising with 4.56s and my weight.

 

Y is the "road force" aka the force experience by the vehicle as the result of torque application, but taking tire diameter into effect, so... not just torque

 

Ok that makes a bit more sense as I remember the NA motor falling off after 3.5k. I can tell you in practice you can't hit the 88mph in third as your chart suggests that's being very not picky though, it's a really cool chart though and very useful information. I want to find something similar for an LS bolted to a T56 to see how it compares to the LS bolted to an R150F. I'm being too lazy to actually do the math ha!

 

lol I don't have a good LS dyno either... theres SO MANY configs that vary wildly even tho we all just say "LS"
adding a trans to my spreadsheet is pretty easy tho...

but this is where the power being left out of what I'm showing leads to some questions, since even tho the Force is greater, the rate at which you are progressing thru the RPM is slower, so acceleration is not optimal to stay in higher gear, but if for some reason you were towing up a hill and trying to maintain speed, you would be in the top of 3rd and not the middle of 4th. dDes that make sense?

I don't think the chart I have shared there shows you can get to 88mph in 3rd on a 31 with 5VZ... theoretically ~86 is possible, but with 5VZ, I recall myself shifting at just barely over 5k since the lack of power past that point was crazy... so shifting to 4th around 78 is more likely from my memory.