2016 OVTune Tacoma 3.5L Manual Transmission / Engine ECU Reflash

thank you. And do you know what model years this effects? because I saw a user here that manufactured a pedal spacer that brings the gas pedal in proper alignment for heel-toe, and plan on getting him to produce me one for any cost, if this is functionally possible without some software override, as you describe.

again, I really do have to ask the question because I drove a 2017 New off the lot ,with the TRD Exhaust and TRD intake installed, and have had virtually none of the experiences (aside from emissions rev hang) all the people here are so, so adamant about. I mean you guys are describing an undriveable truck, plagued by bugged software, and here I am, with Colin McRae's truck, that seemingly has no issues and drives like a bat out of hell.

Im just having a hard time visualizing what you are doing without the ability to peg the throttle while on the brake, aside from a double clutch.... And if the software is preventing all of this anyway, it begs even further questions. I know this is a 'sensitivity' thread, but no need to be so defensive, i just want to know how you guys are driving these trucks, that warrants such highly highly refined ecu and transmission management, especially if the most important act (rev matching) is software blocked..

 

multiple ECU base code versions. the new calibration coming from last year's TSB took earlier calibrations to 04B13, which is probably what you have, cus it works. previous versions... not so much.

 

Sorry, I don't know about 2017 brake override situation.
I think that as manual transmission drivers, we are very in tune with the "feel" of the vehicles we drive. I agree that bundled together, some of our descriptions make this sound like an undrivable vehicle. We are just very in tune with how we want our vehicle to drive and react. To me the most important is direct response and feedback. The "dead pedal, and rev hang for me are the big hitters. I want the engine to wind up when I step on the pedal and wind down when I release, and by a proportional amount of much pedal I apply or let off. And I want it to react the same way every time, not by varying amounts depending on what other criteria the programming may be looking at.

 

It's not hard to visualize bliping the throttle while downshifting without touching the brake. Like I said, you don't need to brake at the same time you are applying throttle to rev-match. You certainly could/would do that on a race track, but if I just want a clean downshift to be able to engine brake and decelerate I just need to blip the throttle as I let off the clutch. It's not software blocked, it's either a side effect of tuning for emissions or fuel economy, or an oversight by Toyota engineers. It is well documented how the ECU does torque management.

I'm not being defensive, you're being overly aggressive and condescending in a discussion thread about making our trucks perform as they should have from the factory. If you truly do want to understand what we are talking about, there are 857 pages here and 2300+ in the development thread describing the problems people have with the stock ECU. If you don't experience the same problems we do, congratulations. You are welcome to participate constructively or not at all, but the attitude isn't necessary.

 

I Wonder if the difference in the Differentials between the TRD-Sport and the TRD-Offroad are the cause of some of it it. Seems like there are lots of TRD-Sport complainers who would have the limited slip.

"the sport has the 8" diff and the off-road models get the 8.75" regardless of transmission":
I feel like the Diff should play a BIG part in transmission performance and feel.. right? This is all difficult information to decisively pin down, so if anyone can give indisputable diff. info it would be welcomed.

And I also have a feeling the TSS models would likely have more issues, since the truck is essentially out of your control in certain situations at a software level.

Each day I thank god I got an MT before the TSS models.

just spitballing here. Trying to really figure out why and what could possibly be giving such radically different experiences.

 

But all TRD models that are MT have the 8.75 differential....

 

AMEN TO THAT! As far as I know it can be disabled somewhat permanently using Techstream. It does make you wonder if it is actually disabled though. Kinda like those smart tvs that allowed you to turn off the phone-home feature with a button that actually did nothing.

I believe the MT ratios are the same regardless of trim level so that wouldn't make a difference.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/trd-sport-and-trd-off-road-different-rear-end-diff.432962/

again, this is hard to nail down info. Lots of confusing input.

 

Without a doubt, there are wildly differing views on our trucks. This is either caused by 1) Significant variability in these trucks (which I believe is real, as the truck I originally test drove hesitated so bad I thought there was something wrong with it so I didn't buy it. It behaved very differently than the one I bought and they both had 5 miles on them.), and/or 2) Peoples expectations/standards vary wildly (see the comments regarding why anyone would want to rev match).

What's amazing is the attitude of the people who are in the "my truck is perfect" or "Toyota sells millions of these so they must be OK" camp and feel that anyone who wants to improve the truck they own is crazy - despite Toyota having 4 different tunes for the manual transmission models in less than 3 model years. With the cost and the resources to certify engines and tunes with the EPA, this is not something that is taken lightly by the manufacturers.

 

@BadKitty the Sport M/Ts also get the 8.75 diff.

I don't think the diff is going to hang the truck up in regards to throttle response, since the issue is a documented software mapping problem, coupled with the clutch accumulator. The deletion mod seems to make most M/T drivers here happy.

I've had my Sport AC M/T for 15,000 miles and am very happy with it as is (in regards to this thread). That being said, I plan on doing the accumulator delete and OVTune work here in the next month or so. This clutch and throttle response map do leave room for improvement. My 2006 Lj Wrangler and 1995 Pathfinder were dreams to drive due to direct linkage and less computer nannies, having this truck as close to that feel as possible would be wonderful.

And just to beat a dead horse, you don't need to brake to downshift and/or rev match.

Cheers

 

I finally convinced myself to order ovtune for my 2818 OR MT. I'm looking forward to 87 tunes. I would love to try 93 but the upcharge and recent gas tax going up, I doubt I will.

Can we ever expect to see open tuning tables for dyno runs?

 

I believe that OVT noted in the past that he is holding the guts of the tunes tight because of the amount of work that it took to crack them and he wasn't going to let folks edit the maps because of liability reasons.

 

That makes total sense. However, maybe possibilities of "pro" tune upgrade? I honestly wouldn't even be looking into flashing this truck if ovtune wasn't available. But I have good memories of dyno runs with Hondata on a civic si

 

Regardless of whether one diff is “beefier” or not, or has a locker or not, the ratio is the same for all V6 M/T equipped trucks: 4.30:1 Therefore, I don’t really see how the diffs would have any impact on driveability between TRD trims. Also, as others have said - there’s rev matching going on without simultaneously braking. I do it consistently every day. And think about downshifting for power to accelerate. Without consistent throttle response, blipping is a crap shoot. I mean, even with OVtune I can’t get a consistent blip. It seems to depend on how fast you’re going among I’m sure a dozen other things. Sometimes a light touch on the gas will make the engine spin up well, other times I literally have to stomp to the floor. On the stock tune, holy fuck, you had to goose it and hold it down sometimes. It’s annoying as hell.

 

ll

As a 30 plus year owner of MANY manual transmission vehicles and a former truck (big rig) driver, let me try to clarify:

Rev Match Downshift - Used to make clutch engagement following a downshift seamless and butter smooth with no jerking.
1. Clutch in
2a. Blip throttle to match engine RPM to what it would be in the next lower gear at the current vehicle speed
2b. Shift lever to the next lower gear
3. Clutch out

Double Clutch Downshift - Used to make gear selection in a non-synchro transmission smooth/possible but can be used in a synchro trans also.
1. Clutch in
2. Shift lever to neutral
3. Clutch out
4. Blip throttle to match engine RPM to what it would be in the next lower gear at the current vehicle speed
5. Clutch in
6. Shift lever to next lower gear
7. Clutch out

At no point during either of these processes are the brakes used at all. The brakes are only utilized in a "Heel Toe Downshift" where either of the above procedures can be implemented with the heel of the right foot operating the brake and the toe of the right foot operating the throttle. This type of downshift is useful when entering a corner under hard braking in race type situations. (hard braking while preparing to accelerate) I cannot envision a situation where I would choose this type of downshift in my Tacoma.

If you drive your truck in such a way that you need to heel toe, may I kindly request that you stay far away from my family out on the road.

 

All of this ^^

..and I engine brake - I don't clutch brake - hence the need to match the revs perfectly for the lower gear (in addition to being as smooth as possible).

 

Exactly! It's the engine and not the clutch doing the braking.

 

I mean, I guess if you wanted to replace your clutch every 10k miles you could clutch brake. lol!

 

Man, I had such a hard time trying to teach my ex the difference. What she ended up doing was just coasting down clutch in and hard on the brakes. Geeeeeeesh.

My son, no problem. He gets it.

 

I rev match almost all the time in my other cars and motorcycles - sometimes by heel/toe (or wrist/fingers on a bike?), sometimes as described above. The issue with this truck (especially before the OV Tune) is that the throttle was so unpredictable. Rev matching is much easier on the synchros and makes going into the next gear buttery smooth. As mentioned, heel/toe is not even an option on the Tacoma for multiple reasons.

Though when I do heel/toe my other cars, I use my heel to operate the throttle and my toe to operate the brake - opposite to what is mentioned above.