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3.4L supercharger

Discussion in '1st Gen. Tacomas (1995-2004)' started by CHMM, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Nov 7, 2019 at 9:34 AM
    #861
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    97 reg cab, v6 5sp 300hp supercharged, Methonal Injection, 600,001 plus miles, Original Owner
    V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger, 2" pulley, methanol injected AC TRD supercharger,(MUST DO) TRD supercharger ported, rebuilt 3 times over 500,000 miles, every 125,000- 150,000 needs rebuild Hella H4 German Rated Headlights HID 55 watt bulbs (MUST DO) 5 speed manual Amsoil for all drive train Smaller 2” pulley,(300hp) (MUST DO) 2004 DESNO fuel injectors, zero ping ping, 2004 side door mirrors Dick Cepek Rims, Michelin tires LTX, ( that last 100,000 miles) Now running Dynopro ATM mud and snow tires KN cold air intake Cat back exhaust with ss exhaust tip, Raised exhaust tail pipe to 2" below body line Optima*dry cell battery,red top Alpine sirius radio, 200 watt amp, focal is165 split door pod speakers Focal door speakers Subwoffer behind seat Viper alarm, Electric Locks Dark tinted windows, 4runner bucket seats, Tacoma Rubber floor mats TRD fender extenders, Bilstien shocks chrome push bar, chrome nerf bars, add a leaf for rear springs trailer iv hitch, electric brake control, Drilled slotted brakes, High carbon steel (MUST DO) EBS green stuff 7000 series pads(MUST DO) TRD engine oil cap TRD stick shift, Rear sliding window 2002 4Runner functional hood scoop cut into Tacoma hood, 4Runner dual overhead map light Gentex Auto dim + Compass + Temp, garage,rearview mirror Corbeau bucket seats Snow Methonal kit stage 2 Champion 3 core aluminum radiator Linex bed liner
    Long go to zero,
    I will check the short as I got a new MAF and not sure
     
  2. Nov 7, 2019 at 9:39 AM
    #862
    mechanicjon

    mechanicjon They call me "Jonny Stubs"

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    Fabtech AAL, Billie's wrapped with 880's , Tundra big brake conversion, bully bars and Pioneer DDin Stereo/dvd with exterrnal usb ports. 240K and going strong.
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    20191107_103706.jpg
     
  3. Nov 7, 2019 at 9:45 AM
    #863
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    Right, you can do the same with the URD AFR calibrator and the 7th as well. The only difference is that the 7th is not user programmable. It’s right around 13.5AFR closed loop. Richer is not always better.

    I looked at the wiring instructions for the AEM vs the 7th and URD AFR Cal. They use the same method of tapping into the AFR sensor wire or intercepting the o2 sensor for earlier gens. I’m sure they’re doing the exact same thing.

    People shit all over the 7th when it’s exactly the same as the AEM as far as the features both share. The only difference is the URD adds fuel via a extra injector.

    plus the AEM can have switchable maps and tune on the fly. So it’s definitely superior in that aspect but there’s more invasive wiring unless you get a wiring harness.
     
  4. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:07 AM
    #864
    BlackSportD

    BlackSportD Well-Known Member

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    Icon/TC Mid travel, TRD S/C, PNP Greddy EMU, 625cc injectors, 2.2 pulley, Hayden tranny cooler, AEM wideband, TRD boost gauge.
    Very debatable. When I ran the FIC I used it to control larger primary injectors and it does this damn well. The ECU wiring might be slightly more invasive to do this but when using a PNP harness who cares. The 7th injector is more invasive as you cut fuel lines, add line etc.

    I used this feature when I would fill up on E85, its awesome, and another advantage to having full control of the primary injectors.

    The Greddy EMU I use now can have it's hardware modified to do the same.

    My biggest gripe with the AEM was having to play around with an assortment of cam and crank sensor bridge resistors to filter out noise that caused issues with the AEM- too little, noise still there, too much, throttle tip-in issues. 2nd gripe was lack of additional features. One of the things that really has me on the Greddy EMU is the automatic trans shifting additional timing retard- its a thing and if you have a pingy 5vz like me it makes a world of difference. The AEM simply could not tune out the ping during shifts unless you went heavy handed on the entire timing map costing you a lot of power.
     
  5. Nov 7, 2019 at 10:50 AM
    #865
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    the method of adding fuel in open loop is different. But as long as the AFR is on target why should it matter? The only reason larger injectors or an extra injector is used is because of lean out at high RPM. And unless you’re running a turbo it doesn’t need much more fuel.

    EDIT: not trying to debate or sound like a smart ass. I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 11:20 AM
    CHMM [OP] and 1997tacomav6 like this.
  6. Nov 7, 2019 at 11:21 AM
    #866
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    97 reg cab, v6 5sp 300hp supercharged, Methonal Injection, 600,001 plus miles, Original Owner
    V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger, 2" pulley, methanol injected AC TRD supercharger,(MUST DO) TRD supercharger ported, rebuilt 3 times over 500,000 miles, every 125,000- 150,000 needs rebuild Hella H4 German Rated Headlights HID 55 watt bulbs (MUST DO) 5 speed manual Amsoil for all drive train Smaller 2” pulley,(300hp) (MUST DO) 2004 DESNO fuel injectors, zero ping ping, 2004 side door mirrors Dick Cepek Rims, Michelin tires LTX, ( that last 100,000 miles) Now running Dynopro ATM mud and snow tires KN cold air intake Cat back exhaust with ss exhaust tip, Raised exhaust tail pipe to 2" below body line Optima*dry cell battery,red top Alpine sirius radio, 200 watt amp, focal is165 split door pod speakers Focal door speakers Subwoffer behind seat Viper alarm, Electric Locks Dark tinted windows, 4runner bucket seats, Tacoma Rubber floor mats TRD fender extenders, Bilstien shocks chrome push bar, chrome nerf bars, add a leaf for rear springs trailer iv hitch, electric brake control, Drilled slotted brakes, High carbon steel (MUST DO) EBS green stuff 7000 series pads(MUST DO) TRD engine oil cap TRD stick shift, Rear sliding window 2002 4Runner functional hood scoop cut into Tacoma hood, 4Runner dual overhead map light Gentex Auto dim + Compass + Temp, garage,rearview mirror Corbeau bucket seats Snow Methonal kit stage 2 Champion 3 core aluminum radiator Linex bed liner
    When full throttle in open loop both short and long trims are at zero, with AFR at 11 to 12.

    It hooks up when open loop comes on.

    20191107_121356.jpg
     
  7. Nov 7, 2019 at 11:30 AM
    #867
    TMFF

    TMFF Well-Known Member

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    Stuff and junk and things...
    I was asking about trims during boosted closed loop
     
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  8. Nov 7, 2019 at 12:00 PM
    #868
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think ECU doesn’t uses fuel trims in open loop. Uses the sensor for target AFR.

    Go into high gear and boost part throttle. Then watch fuel trims and AFR.
     
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  9. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:13 PM
    #869
    CHMM

    CHMM [OP] GTO

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  10. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:20 PM
    #870
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    97 reg cab, v6 5sp 300hp supercharged, Methonal Injection, 600,001 plus miles, Original Owner
    V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger, 2" pulley, methanol injected AC TRD supercharger,(MUST DO) TRD supercharger ported, rebuilt 3 times over 500,000 miles, every 125,000- 150,000 needs rebuild Hella H4 German Rated Headlights HID 55 watt bulbs (MUST DO) 5 speed manual Amsoil for all drive train Smaller 2” pulley,(300hp) (MUST DO) 2004 DESNO fuel injectors, zero ping ping, 2004 side door mirrors Dick Cepek Rims, Michelin tires LTX, ( that last 100,000 miles) Now running Dynopro ATM mud and snow tires KN cold air intake Cat back exhaust with ss exhaust tip, Raised exhaust tail pipe to 2" below body line Optima*dry cell battery,red top Alpine sirius radio, 200 watt amp, focal is165 split door pod speakers Focal door speakers Subwoffer behind seat Viper alarm, Electric Locks Dark tinted windows, 4runner bucket seats, Tacoma Rubber floor mats TRD fender extenders, Bilstien shocks chrome push bar, chrome nerf bars, add a leaf for rear springs trailer iv hitch, electric brake control, Drilled slotted brakes, High carbon steel (MUST DO) EBS green stuff 7000 series pads(MUST DO) TRD engine oil cap TRD stick shift, Rear sliding window 2002 4Runner functional hood scoop cut into Tacoma hood, 4Runner dual overhead map light Gentex Auto dim + Compass + Temp, garage,rearview mirror Corbeau bucket seats Snow Methonal kit stage 2 Champion 3 core aluminum radiator Linex bed liner
    I don't have my nozzle tuned correctly as its running rich right now. My numbers changed for me when I replaced the fuel pump and the MAF sensor in a good way last month needing less fuel. I actually was running a number 6 nozzle before now a number 2.
    I don't want to go to a number 1 nozzle, smaller, the added water with the methanol the engine definitely likes. So I will have to see if 30/70 is a better mixture after the 50/50 is used up,

    My trims are consistently not consistent in closed loop tho. Open loop comes on sometimes at 2500 and sometimes at 4000rpms.
    Depending if its lugging or at high rpms. Neither of which I have ping issues.

    But Im spraying in closed loop after 3 or4 pounds which I can change to 6-7 pounds and my AFR is 13 fighting the whole time or so.
    Short Trims tends to run more in the negative numbers in closed loop under boost when spraying like -5.
    Probably because the Added fuel when spraying and the ECU wanting to lean it out to keep the 14.7.

    So there is a fight with the methonal being sprayed in closed loop and the ECU.

    The methonal definitely knocks the AFR down a point or so in closed loop once it’s starts spraying and sometimes it’s just for a moment before open loop pops up and sometimes not.

    My idle, normal driving with closed loop trims are great along with open loop at zero or so.

    But boosted short trims in closed loop are a guess with when open loop will come on and what negative trim will show up when spraying.

    Because I’m spraying methonal in closed loop my numbers will be different than others.

    This works for me, definitely not perfect but

    I wish I could get the supercharger to be in open loop whenever I go into boost in particular.
     
  11. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:28 PM
    #871
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger, 2" pulley, methanol injected AC TRD supercharger,(MUST DO) TRD supercharger ported, rebuilt 3 times over 500,000 miles, every 125,000- 150,000 needs rebuild Hella H4 German Rated Headlights HID 55 watt bulbs (MUST DO) 5 speed manual Amsoil for all drive train Smaller 2” pulley,(300hp) (MUST DO) 2004 DESNO fuel injectors, zero ping ping, 2004 side door mirrors Dick Cepek Rims, Michelin tires LTX, ( that last 100,000 miles) Now running Dynopro ATM mud and snow tires KN cold air intake Cat back exhaust with ss exhaust tip, Raised exhaust tail pipe to 2" below body line Optima*dry cell battery,red top Alpine sirius radio, 200 watt amp, focal is165 split door pod speakers Focal door speakers Subwoffer behind seat Viper alarm, Electric Locks Dark tinted windows, 4runner bucket seats, Tacoma Rubber floor mats TRD fender extenders, Bilstien shocks chrome push bar, chrome nerf bars, add a leaf for rear springs trailer iv hitch, electric brake control, Drilled slotted brakes, High carbon steel (MUST DO) EBS green stuff 7000 series pads(MUST DO) TRD engine oil cap TRD stick shift, Rear sliding window 2002 4Runner functional hood scoop cut into Tacoma hood, 4Runner dual overhead map light Gentex Auto dim + Compass + Temp, garage,rearview mirror Corbeau bucket seats Snow Methonal kit stage 2 Champion 3 core aluminum radiator Linex bed liner
    Going into open loop it feels like someone hit me in the rear to take off, there’s a big power difference for me going into open loop from closed loop.

    I wish I could get the supercharger to be in open loop whenever I go into boost in particular.
     
  12. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:35 PM
    #872
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    How can I get the supercharger to be in open loop whenever I go into boost in particular?

    6A3746F7-DDB9-468C-A84C-18FCEC800EE9.jpg
     
  13. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:50 PM
    #873
    BlackSportD

    BlackSportD Well-Known Member

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    Icon/TC Mid travel, TRD S/C, PNP Greddy EMU, 625cc injectors, 2.2 pulley, Hayden tranny cooler, AEM wideband, TRD boost gauge.
    Thanks for clarifying tone, it can be hard to interpret.

    Larger primary injectors are not inherently better, but its preference. Kind of like the "is turbo or S/C more reliable?" There are so many elements involved.

    Personally I like not adding additional lines and injectors, but just having larger primaries that can handle boost and/or the extra 30% E85 demands. You could likely do E85 with OEM injectors and 7th, but not with the R4 software, I would prefer something that easily lets you switch out or better yet use a flex fuel sensors and blend the maps.

    But again preference. I've had guys hate on me using a switch for 91 and E85 and try and make it sound very flawed vs. standalone and flex fuel sensor. But the OEM ECU is so fast at trimming and the 5vzfe with TRD S/C is so far from being "maxed out" at "at the breaking point" of the internals, the switch method had been fine.

    I've noticed this too and I'm not on meth. Maybe its just bad transitional a/f tuning on both our parts, or the timing gets much more aggressive as around 3K the OEM knock sensors start to do their job. Maybe none of that and just the cam profile like a Yamaha R6. I had a non-vtec accord that would grow so much balls after X RPM I swore it was Vtec but it wasn't. Our trucks not being VVTi, maybe they have a very dramatic VE change not smoothed out by variable timing.

    In older platforms there used to be open loop modules to trick ECUs into open loop. I think they did tricks like crank up the TPS signal, or o2 sensor or some such thing that didn't drastically effect the tune but would trick a ECU into premature open loop. Maybe someone should buy one of these and be a guinea pig haha.
     
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  14. Nov 7, 2019 at 1:59 PM
    #874
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t consider the E85. I can’t even get it in GA. If you’re going to run E85 then yes, I’d say the 7th would be a very crude way of doing it if you could even get it to work.

    But for me I really don’t add that much fuel. I even cut back what URD had in the 7th fuel map. I did have to add in a ton of timing. My truck is just ping happy, honestly I think it’s a ECU calibration thing. I think there’s a lot of versions out there and mine is the ping happy type.

    As for the increase of power at open loop mine did that before the 7th. Now it doesn’t do it at all. I do get a nice boost in power around 4000RPM though.
     
  15. Nov 7, 2019 at 2:09 PM
    #875
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    I’d love a way to get this 50-60HP lost on driving the charger though. It would be cool to run a stock pulley and run a small turbo at a few PSI where the first cat goes. Would make more sense to just run a nice front mount turbo but sound cool in theory.

    I’m after torque and power down low. Not going fast.
     
  16. Nov 7, 2019 at 2:40 PM
    #876
    CHMM

    CHMM [OP] GTO

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    Well the winter gasoline blend 91 octane sucks. It’s 60 degrees here. But after 2 gumouts in the tank, it’s whistling like it should.
     
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  17. Nov 7, 2019 at 2:42 PM
    #877
    BlackSportD

    BlackSportD Well-Known Member

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    Icon/TC Mid travel, TRD S/C, PNP Greddy EMU, 625cc injectors, 2.2 pulley, Hayden tranny cooler, AEM wideband, TRD boost gauge.
    Might not be that bad. Brazil is big on E85 and there are little piggyback kits that make primary injectors duty cycle a little longer for that 30% additional. Once you get towards redline/power peak you might run into duty cycle limitations. I ran the TRD S/C on OEM injectors and AEM FIC for a long time, they have pretty good head room.

    Yeah I blame it on not refining my closed loop/open loop transition yet. I see the air fuel get into the 11s to 1 ration and the power kicks up big time- I need my closed loop richer maybe.

    The struggle is real haha.

    I have one of the early CXRacing turbo kits still in the box in garage storage because as a car nut I saw something that is EXTREMELY rare in the wild- an application where an S/C and T/C was so easily combined from an install point of view (you would only need to slightly modify the charge piping near the S/C nose cone). So there is BIG temptation to actually go through with this. Hesitation is my truck just works, and works well, is CARB and oh yeah, it just works.

    As an EMS and electronics hobbyist with minor coding background, the next part of the excitement was the EMS and integration challenges such as bypassing the S/C when the T/C kicks on. This is a small part behind making my S/C bypass mod thread (the other large part was simply to turn the darn S/C off when doing mountain highway drives). https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/sc-bypass-switch.582614/ Turns out I'm nuking it and a custom solution is probably not even necessary especially with the EMU.

    As some other very astute members have pointed out, the bypass can't handle all the flow at higher RPMs, but its darn better than 100% compound boost. With the EMU and some tuning to control the S/C bypass solenoid setup (EMU has a 7th injector some use as a boost control solenoid, so it could even have a PWM like nature so its not a harsh on/off). Also if I went forward with this I would likely go back from the 2.2 pulley to OEM, if not even the overdrive pulley that TRD made before the 7th kit for those complaining of ping and a pulley company still makes to this day (I think it puts out 5psi). With all the low end ping the extra boost is just not necessary and would help out the bypass in the higher revs.

    How awesome would it be that the S/C gives great low end instant oomph (like when you see that yellow light or need to jump from a slow to fast lane) and then when staying on it the turbo spools up, the air is much cooler and denser and then the S/C parasitic lag and heating drops off?!?! Ultimately its just not necessary, but again, its so rare for an engine layout, S/C and T/C configuration and options all just comes together to make this so easy vs. other massively custom setups on other cars.

    When people as "why?" the answer is not because some complicated use-case, its "because I can" haha.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019 at 3:51 PM
  18. Nov 7, 2019 at 2:50 PM
    #878
    Dalandser

    Dalandser ¡Me Gustan Las Taco-mas!

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  19. Nov 7, 2019 at 3:03 PM
    #879
    1997tacomav6

    1997tacomav6 V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger,2"pulley,meth

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    V6 5sp,RegCab,TRD Supercharger, 2" pulley, methanol injected AC TRD supercharger,(MUST DO) TRD supercharger ported, rebuilt 3 times over 500,000 miles, every 125,000- 150,000 needs rebuild Hella H4 German Rated Headlights HID 55 watt bulbs (MUST DO) 5 speed manual Amsoil for all drive train Smaller 2” pulley,(300hp) (MUST DO) 2004 DESNO fuel injectors, zero ping ping, 2004 side door mirrors Dick Cepek Rims, Michelin tires LTX, ( that last 100,000 miles) Now running Dynopro ATM mud and snow tires KN cold air intake Cat back exhaust with ss exhaust tip, Raised exhaust tail pipe to 2" below body line Optima*dry cell battery,red top Alpine sirius radio, 200 watt amp, focal is165 split door pod speakers Focal door speakers Subwoffer behind seat Viper alarm, Electric Locks Dark tinted windows, 4runner bucket seats, Tacoma Rubber floor mats TRD fender extenders, Bilstien shocks chrome push bar, chrome nerf bars, add a leaf for rear springs trailer iv hitch, electric brake control, Drilled slotted brakes, High carbon steel (MUST DO) EBS green stuff 7000 series pads(MUST DO) TRD engine oil cap TRD stick shift, Rear sliding window 2002 4Runner functional hood scoop cut into Tacoma hood, 4Runner dual overhead map light Gentex Auto dim + Compass + Temp, garage,rearview mirror Corbeau bucket seats Snow Methonal kit stage 2 Champion 3 core aluminum radiator Linex bed liner
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kap8ANNOoO8
     
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  20. Nov 7, 2019 at 3:03 PM
    #880
    Shortman5

    Shortman5 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know why you’d even want to bypass. Just run both on low boost or some combination. Is there a formula for compounded boost? I read somewhere else that 10PSI + 10PSI makes 30PSI on a twin charged setup.

    My issue with the CX racing kit for me is the log style manifold made they sell for $500.00. I’d rather have something else. Like a small turbo at the end of a set of headers.
     
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