3rd gear grinds until car is warmed up.

Over the summer I replaced fluids in my rear diff, manual trans, transfer case, and front diff. on my 2005 Tacoma TRD 4x4 6spd.

Now the weather is getting colder, each morning shifting to 3rd grinds until the car is warmed up? I used Red Line Oil Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant MT90 GL-4 75W90 (2 Quarts).

Did I use wrong or bad oil?
Has anyone heard of this problem?
Is it possible I got the fluids mixed up and put gear oil into the trans? Here are the different fluids I used.

• Red Line Oil Synthetic Manual Transmission Lubricant MT90 GL-4 75W90 (2 Quarts)
  
• Red Line 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil - 1 Gallon
  
• Red Line Synthetic Differential Gear Oil GL-5 75W90 2 QUART 57904

Thanks

 

Did the 2 qts fill it properly?

IE with the vehicle level in both directions, does fluid weep out of the fill hole when the plug is removed?

The GL 4 is the right stuff. But even if you'd put the GL5 in it, it would not cause grinding / damage to syncros this soon. If ever.

Any funkyness at any other shift points? When things started being a little weird for me on another ride, it was almost always clutch slave or master related.

 

Honestly I don't how much of the 2 quarts was left over. Was there supposed to be any? I can check in the garage tonight if have a half bottle on the shelf.

I was parked in the garage so it should have been level enough. If I remove the plug I don't know if the fluid drains. I have a broken wrist right now so I can't check. BUT...I filled it until fluid started to come back out the fill hole.

If the clutch slave or master related, what other symptoms should I look for. The clutch seems fine. I had a slave go out in another car and the clutch did nothing when it was pressed. This does not seem like that. But who knows.

 

OP, how many miles you have on the truck?
The 3rd gear grind is quite common on the early RA60 and may also become a 5th gear grind.

I completely rebuilt a RA60F from the ground up this summer.
The transmission has had a kazillion parts revisions and 3 revisions of the basic transmission itself. The significance of this is there were many known issues that AISIN was trying to correct because the transmission was also being used in some Tundras, HilUX Cadillac CTS, Camero, some Holden and other badges and many owners were unhappy with it.

As far as your current problem, from what I know about the transmission being recently inside the likely causes are:
- Clutch drag not permitting a complete release of the disc.
- Worn out gear oil.
- Worn or broken internal components.

- Clutch Drag. There are a lot of reasons for this not the least being a tired high mileage clutch that may have weak or broken springs on the disc and pressure plate.

- Gear Oil. Surprisingly the type of gear oil can make a substantial difference. More than a few on this forum endorse the Redline MT-90. I am not one of them and in fact did not much like it in the cold or its longevity. My favorite is the GM12346190. The least expensive source currently is Summit Racing. That GM number will default to an ACDelco number.
Another issue with the transmission is there is not filter or magnet inside. It is the first transmission I have seen without either.
Also, the transmission only holds 1.9 qts. and gets hot. It is my opinion that the gear oil is being worn out prematurely and owners are not changing it frequently enough.

- Worn/Broken Components. A common fault in the early 6 speeds is broken shift key springs on the clutch hub slider of the 3rd and 5th gear syncros. The springs literally gets cockwise in the shift keys and may actually come out. Mild cases have grinding and severe cases will cause a lockup in either gear.

 

Its funny you say 3rd and 5th. Those grind sometimes, but I always thought I was lazy shifting because they are the farthest reach.

I have 127,000 miles. How long should our clutch and transmission last?

The trans fluid is no more than 5 months old. I will try to check the oil level this weekend. Like I said, I have a broken wrist and don't know if I can do it all with one hand.

This morning I warmed my car up first before leaving. 3rd gear did not grind. But my 4x4 did grind when I turned that on. Hope I did not screw that up too.

 

Driver error LOL

 

It kind of depends on the clutch use. Lots of slipping, or riding with one's foot on the pedal will shorten its life a lot. You can trash a new clutch in an hour. My gut is 127k of mostly stop and go its probably close.
While typing this it occurred to me that there was a TSB for the early clutches on the 6 speed. Seems like it was for the center springs or something else on the disc coming apart -- which would explain a lot. I shall try to see if I have a hard copy and get back.

 

.........and back. Wow, am I good or what? I went right to the TSB:
T-SB-0385-09.pdf

There may also be another and I will see if something jogs my memory.....

 

Thank you for the response. But I don't this TSB applies. However I do appreciate your time in looking it up.

• "Some customers of manual transmission equipped, V6 FJ Cruiser and Tacoma vehicles may experience a slipping feeling in all forward gears and reverse. The center section of the clutch disk may have separated from the friction material section of the clutch disk. Installation of a new clutch disk and clutch cover (pressure plate) is required to repair the vehicle."

1. Is the grinding in 3rd gear also considered to be to be a "slip"?

​

• "Repair Procedure 1. Confirm condition. Place vehicle in every gear position (forward and reverse) and attempt to move vehicle. Does the vehicle move in any gear? • YES — This TSB does NOT apply. Refer to the applicable Repair Manual for diagnosis. • NO — Go to step 2."

1. If these instructions are followed, the truck will move in any gear. Right? So the answer is "YES — This TSB does NOT apply. Refer to the applicable Repair Manual for diagnosis."

​

 

I do enjoy a manual trans a lot, but I am not expert. I probably do drag the clutch at times to make the shifts smoother if the kids/dog/fiance/etc are in the car.

 

If I check the oil level this weekend, I don't have any more MT90 GL-4 75W90. I do have more Redline 75W80 GL-5 Gear Oil. Can I top it off with this, or should I go run around looking for the MT90?

 

If you got somewhere close to 2 qt. in there +/- its enough. I do not feel the problem is the amount of gear oil.

You indicated that shifts improve as things warm up. This is likely due to the gear oil being thinner giving the syncros a chance to catch up. You could try could try going with a thinner gear oil. I think the Redline MT-90 is on the mid- to upper-end in weight being about 13.9 cSt IIRC. A thinner cSt synthetic gear oil would help with the cold and might help with overall shifting.

Other low cost items that can affect shifting are the shift bushings, especially on high mileage vehicles. There are two: one is locate in the shift tower near the base of the shift lever and the other is at the very tip of the shift lever.

Other than these low cost things the issue is likely with the clutch or transmission. Given your mileage it could be one or both. Accessing the clutch and transmission takes a bit of labor. I've done both alone but had a good transmission jack and warm garage.

 

Did I buy the wrong oil?

 

I have read that GL-5 oils contain additives that will harm synchros. I won't take a chance with GL-5 in a transmission.

 

So is a good manual trans oil to use?

 

Here is what the 2005 FSM says:
http://www.customtacos.com/tech.old...06toyrm/06toypdf/06rmsrc/rm2006ta/0020211.pdf

However, take note my '14 also has the RA60F and the new specs says GL-4 only. Not sure when they dropped the dual spec. but you can be sure if I had an issue they would weasel out on a claim if they could determine a GL-5 was in there.

Remember, this is about the shifting issue and possibly inexpensive ways to address the matter. I will post a few alternatives later that meet the GL-4 specs but are lighter weight. You said that you have the MT-90 in there now, so for reference that will be the benchmark.

 

Here are some Manual Transmission Lubricants (MTL) that are primarily GL-4, with a few GL-5. This list was copied from the Technical and White Papers Forum of Bob is the Oil Guy from a post on 8/14/15 and author MolaKule, # 3821548.

The benchmark noted is the Redline MT-90 that you have used. It is noted to have a viscosity in the 14-15 cSt (centistokes) range in the updated list below. Lighter gear oils may permit easier shifting when cold but I would not go too thin as bearing protection could suffer. Perhaps look in the 12 cSt - 13 cSt range to try. I ended up using the GM12346190 (this is also ACDelco 10-4059) on the basis of the comments at the end of this list.

"Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's.

NOTE: This list is only a “suggested” list of currently known MTFs that may be applicable as a replacement. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or are worn.

A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.x cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC

5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]

B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 cSt@100C versions [70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2

7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)

8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)

C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt

H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh’s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF


I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:

1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt
[2. GM12346190 also ACDelco 10-4059 - 11.5 - 12.5 cSt and SAE 75W85/90.
not listed on the 8/14/15 post but listed earlier and included here]

J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle

$30 75W-90 Synthetic Gear Lube - 1 Quart (Pack of 2)

75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90

5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid

$34 XT-M5-QS Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid - 1 Quart , black

XT-M5-QS

7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems."
______________________

Note: the reason I tried the GM12346190 (ACDelco 10-4059) was due to 3rd gear grind especially when cold and a discussion in the BITOG forum about another MTL in which the same author MolaKule responded to a question on problem shifting:

"You might also want to try the GM Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid, # 12346190. And it IS a real synthetic MT fluid with PAO and esters and none of the pseudo-synthetic GroupIII oils.

It was specially designed for cold weather shifting."

 

Short answer from the long post above. If this were mine I would try either the ACDelco 10-4059 (GM12346190), or the Redline MT-85 and see what happens but give either at least 500 miles use. I use the ACDelco 10-4059 (GM12346190) exclusively in my 6 speeds.

 

Thanks for all the info Taco'09!

 

Sorry I have been gone for so long. Been recovering from a surgery but I think my hands are strong enough to work my truck. So this problem still happens. I am a Redline fan. So if I get Redline MT-85 it might make things shift without grinding?

Is this the right stuff: MT-85 75W85 GL-4 GEAR OIL

$31 Red Line (50504) MT-85 Manual Transmission 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil, 1 Quart

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-50504-MT-85-75W85/dp/B004D4URV6

Redline's website says its not for 2005 Tacoma's.
https://www.redlineoil.com/mt-85-75w85-gl-4-gear-oil