1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Jun 16, 2022 at 9:19 AM
    #5761
    907rx7

    907rx7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2019
    Member:
    #298028
    Messages:
    1,517
    First Name:
    James
    Alaska
    Vehicle:
    '20 Tacoma DCSB SR 4x4
    1. I'll buy them from you.
    2. @daveeasa
     
    mustainefan likes this.
  2. Jun 16, 2022 at 9:27 AM
    #5762
    mustainefan

    mustainefan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Member:
    #94194
    Messages:
    195
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2022 Tacoma TRD Off Road
    Icon Stage 2, 2015 TRD Pro Wheels, BFG KO2 285/75r16
    Happy to sell them to you, but need to figure out the downgrade first.
     
  3. Jun 16, 2022 at 9:29 AM
    #5763
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    12,911
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    For what reason? @daveeasa would be the one for a reverse wiring harness if it were to be done, but I don't know that anyone has gone that direction.
     
    musicisevil likes this.
  4. Jun 16, 2022 at 9:58 AM
    #5764
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    4,073
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4, 2005 RC 5MT Prerunner
    I don't build harnesses if I don't believe in the end goal or I don't feel comfortable with the end goal.

    I prefer to focus my efforts on solutions which add performance and value rather than those which subtract.
     
    tektaco84 and crashnburn80 [OP] like this.
  5. Jun 16, 2022 at 4:07 PM
    #5765
    Saturnine

    Saturnine I am a meat popsicle

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2020
    Member:
    #332540
    Messages:
    2,369
    First Name:
    Dar C
    North of the wall
    Vehicle:
    17 TRD OR AC MGM
    The inverse argument is that you'd be helping someone else achieve their lighting upgrade.
     
    mustainefan likes this.
  6. Jun 16, 2022 at 4:11 PM
    #5766
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    4,073
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4, 2005 RC 5MT Prerunner
    Johnny is taking care of this guy. He has fewer mental quirks to deal with.
     
  7. Jun 16, 2022 at 4:46 PM
    #5767
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Member:
    #311172
    Messages:
    392
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    99 4Runner SR5
    3" OME lift, heavy coils f/r 3/16" steel skids Modified Coastal Offroad diy bumper 5spd swap ('98 donor)
    To be fair if the use case is somewhwere with harsh winters, going "backward" to halogens just allows the lenses to remain clear(er) in extreme coldr.
     
    DuffyBank and Canadian Caber like this.
  8. Jun 16, 2022 at 4:48 PM
    #5768
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    4,073
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4, 2005 RC 5MT Prerunner
    This guy’s stated goal was 100% aesthetics.
     
    musicisevil and 5nahalf like this.
  9. Jun 20, 2022 at 2:59 PM
    #5769
    6MTPro

    6MTPro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2019
    Member:
    #290940
    Messages:
    884
    Gender:
    Male
    HI -> CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 TRD Pro 6MT
    OV Tune, 265/75/16, PPF, Bakflip Mx4, Meso, Cali Raised LED, TJM
    Yeah you can trade me for my blackout Pro ones haha.
     
  10. Jun 25, 2022 at 4:25 AM
    #5770
    Bowhuntercoop

    Bowhuntercoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Member:
    #108357
    Messages:
    1,468
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 TRD Pro Taco, 2018 4Runner
    So on my 18 pro as long as I don’t mind trimming the h9 tab I can run the same h9 bulb that’s recommended for both the low and high beams?
     
  11. Jun 25, 2022 at 4:51 AM
    #5771
    ryanvar42

    ryanvar42 That is your opinion. It is wrong.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2021
    Member:
    #355569
    Messages:
    2,066
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ryan
    Vehicle:
    2021 TRD Sport
    None
    Yeah
     
    Bowhuntercoop likes this.
  12. Jun 27, 2022 at 12:08 PM
    #5772
    Bowhuntercoop

    Bowhuntercoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Member:
    #108357
    Messages:
    1,468
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 TRD Pro Taco, 2018 4Runner
    Installed the new h9 in the high beam spot. Super simple mod. For the low beams what are my options? Keep the stock h9s that come with it that way it’s the same bulb for both? Or are there better options for the low beams? Thanks guys
     
  13. Jun 27, 2022 at 12:53 PM
    #5773
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Member:
    #311172
    Messages:
    392
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    99 4Runner SR5
    3" OME lift, heavy coils f/r 3/16" steel skids Modified Coastal Offroad diy bumper 5spd swap ('98 donor)
    I think you have it (or maybe just typed it) backwards. The lowbeam uses an H11 bulb stock, while the high beam uses an H9. The H11 is optically compatible with an H9 (filament size/placement/base size is effectively the same) but the H9 has no glare cap. You shouldn't need to trim the tab for your highbeam bulbs (unless you want one you can easily swap to a lowbeam if one burns out unexpectedly, planning ahead and all that).

    The Philips H9 has been the best upgrade bulb option for the lowbeam, unfortunately there are no high "+Focus" higher spec H9's, as the H9 is already a fairly high intensity/output bulb. If you need/want additional light with your highbeams you need to look at adding auxiliary lights. We have a solid thread in the "Lighting" subforum, also started by crashnburn80 for "SAE J581 driving lights" although it is not 100% strictly limited to street legal/fully compliant options at this point.
     
  14. Jun 27, 2022 at 2:00 PM
    #5774
    Bowhuntercoop

    Bowhuntercoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Member:
    #108357
    Messages:
    1,468
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2018 TRD Pro Taco, 2018 4Runner
    You are correct haha. Thanks sir.
     
    Toy_Runner likes this.
  15. Jun 27, 2022 at 3:05 PM
    #5775
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    12,911
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    As @Toy_Runner mentioned, there are no upgrades for the H9 high beam, Toyota already equipped them with the best bulb available from the factory. To improve high beam performance, you need to add driving lights. Many companies will call their products 'driving' lights or 'driving' optics, when they are not the same as an SAE J581 driving beam pattern, so it is important to understand what you are comparing.

    This is the SAE J581 thread below. It does contain some examples of driving lights that are a driving pattern, but too high intensity to meet the J581 classification. It isn't as exhaustive for product reviews, but a good place for the discussion on driving lights.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-sae-j581-aux-high-beam-thread.696597/
     
    Toy_Runner likes this.
  16. Jul 3, 2022 at 11:58 PM
    #5776
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2015
    Member:
    #156893
    Messages:
    12,911
    Gender:
    Male
    Kirkland, WA
    Vehicle:
    2003 DCSB TRD OR
    Go Hawks!
    Honda Civic headlight post for 2016-2021 Civic models

    The Honda halogen headlights are made by Koito and produced in the Czech Republic and utilize an H11 low beam projector with a 9005 high beam reflector, similar architecture to the halogen 4runner lamps (save the side entry projector on the 4runner). The OEM LED headlights lack any manufacturing brand other than 'Honda' and are stamped as manufactured in the USA.

    6C99C601-B796-46C8-81BD-9F6CC37601EF.jpg

    The stock bulb appears to be a Philips Long Life H11 (LL). The pattern appears pretty typical of an OEM projector, good hot spot with a very uniform pattern and noticeable uplight above the cut off.
    9269D8A9-AAF7-487F-A736-27F023FB21CF.jpg

    Through extensive bulb testing in H11s for both halogen and LED and utilizing the best 9005 bulb upgrades currently available, I'll run through the best bulbs on the market to see how they compare to each other and how they compare to the OEM LEDs. I only have one halogen assembly and one LED assembly, so the only side-by-side pictures can be comparing to OEM LED. However pictures alone can be misleading, which is why measured data is important.

    FC728C1F-5335-4D31-BDC4-8D03C481832A.jpg

    First, Philips LL H11 vs Tungsram Platinum H11
    B194530E-8D05-4E23-8660-8B1791C0DF3B_1_102_o.jpg

    The Tungsrams provide a 60% output intensity improvement over stock. Not surprising based on the original review here: Tungsram Platinum

    Philips LL H11 vs German Philips H9 low beam swap
    6B9E2387-73D9-4705-9E08-EA5AFFD8D19F_1_102_o.jpg

    The Philips H9 swap provides 65% higher output intensity than the stock Philips bulbs. The German Philips H9s are the highest performance H9s tested in this thread. Note that while the Philips H9s will fit in a Tacoma assembly without modification, they will not fit in a Honda Civic assembly without modification. The top metal tab must be trimmed shorter to lock into the assembly.

    The Philips H9 swap beam pattern looks identical to stock, just more light everywhere throughout the pattern.
    3CF2643D-4760-4784-8FE3-25BA5B55C7D3_1_201_a.jpg

    Testing with the most advanced and best focused LED available today, the Morimoto 2stroke 3.0s originally covered here. No other LED on the market is optically as close to a halogen as the Morimoto 2stroke 3.0s.

    Stock Philips LL H11 vs Morimoto 2stroke 3.0
    7C88F474-1BC7-4217-9E61-79065889EEFA_1_102_o.jpg

    The Morimoto come out 8% lower intensity than stock. The best LED on the market cannot match stock halogen performance.

    Running the Morimoto LEDs causes changes to the beam pattern. A large void/dark spot is in the lower part of the pattern and uplight is reduced. Neither are surprising being the emitters are directional and pointed to the sides, so it does not provide the omnidirectional light source the projectors are designed for, meaning light is absent from parts of the pattern it would otherwise be present in. However most noticeable is the lack of concentrated hot spot vs the halogen counterparts. This is because the larger LED lacks focus compared to a halogen, and this is using the most advanced LED on the market with the best focus. LEDs do not work well in these assemblies.
    9FB6A28D-A3BB-4DDA-9FA5-9881F5006E67.jpg

    To compare the most advanced replacement LED to a basic halogen upgrade.

    Morimoto 2stroke 3.0 vs German Philips H9
    ACC1AB93-F4C5-49E3-9E43-3E2AD9A3AF7C_1_102_o.jpg

    An $18 Philips H9 swap is 79.5% higher in output intensity than the best $200+ Morimoto LEDs. Again not surprising, as we have seen across every vehicle platform tested that performance halogens in halogen assemblies designed for an omnidirectional halogen light source always outperform drop in replacement LEDs. An industry expert covered this in an interview in detail, and referenced this very thread as an example: https://jalopnik.com/why-most-led-headlight-upgrades-dont-really-work-an-ex-1843070472

    The OEM LEDs utilize 5 down-firing emitters into a reflector. Reflector optics are the most efficient.
    1F554552-9985-4B69-A925-2D78E54FEA82.jpg

    Power draw on the low beam is 1.02A, or about 14w.
    0352E9BD-95B7-47A5-A5E8-AE82B3EF2941.jpg

    As far as output intensity, the OEM LED is significant upgrade over stock.

    Stock Philips LL H11 vs OEM LED
    3A4DE104-657A-4B65-9AAB-483D1C189618_1_102_o.jpg

    OEM LED is nearly 2.1x the output intensity of the stock Philips LL H11 bulbs. Even compared to the best halogen upgrade using the German Philips H9, OEM LED still comes out on top.

    German Philips H9 vs OEM LED low beam
    A66AD568-0839-4DD3-AF60-86EF34C0B408_1_102_o.jpg

    The OEM LED headlights are about 26% higher in output intensity than the best halogen bulb upgrade available using the German Philips H9. However, the pattern is different.

    OEM LED
    46CF4415-1E8D-47DD-BAD5-E725E154D8BB_1_201_a.jpg

    While the halogen lamps covered about 1 3/4 panels, the OEM LED lamps cover just slightly over 1. The pattern isn't as uniform either. It is brighter yes, but it doesn't look as good.

    OEM LED vs German Philips H9
    D241FD14-0086-4231-9567-6E79BBD4DFAC.jpg

    It is worth noting that the IIHS rates the 2021 Civic headlights as Poor with standard halogen lights (with stock bulbs) and the OEM LED as Good. You can see the report linked here: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/honda/civic-4-door-sedan/2021#headlights

    The stock halogens get the worst rating possible from the IIHS for headlight safety and the best drop in replacement LEDs on the market perform worse than the stock bulbs, I certainly would not suggest drop in LEDs in this application.

    This is a close up of the high beam reflector. Not as important for the high beam, but also used under the low beam, the outer portion of the optical assembly uses a texturized surround, which acts to defuse stray light and give better control of the pattern. Smart.
    EB4553D1-4DD4-496F-9AD9-F056A8AF44FB.jpg

    OEM 9005 high beam
    EF22E6A3-4B63-43D4-BB36-9037AD23E2D3.jpg

    Relatively standard OEM high beam, a clear hotspot for maximum down road illumination with a general soft flood light for broad area illumination.

    OEM LED high beam
    85EC9CEF-21A9-4799-B205-6C263C31F14B.jpg

    The OEM LED uses 4 down-firing emitters and draws 0.82A, or about 11.3w.

    2765EA02-0D39-4DBE-89EC-668C2810889E.jpg

    OEM LED high beam
    0054DBF3-0B96-4A34-836F-11EC1F035D61_1_201_a.jpg

    The OEM LED high beam covers a much smaller area than the halogen high beam and does not provide the same nice flood function.

    Standard 9005 Sylvania vs OEM LED high beam
    36F387B0-F02F-40A6-90BF-12EBD2B2DE3D_1_102_o.jpg

    The stock halogen high beam is ~11.6% higher in output intensity than the OEM LED high beam, while also providing a better pattern.

    Upgrading the high beam bulbs to a 9011 HIR with the best tested new Korean Sylvania HIRs

    Sylvania 9005 vs new Korean Sylvania 9011 HIR
    2347A16B-C3AD-4729-A13E-953CA44804BD_1_102_o.jpg

    The HIRs are about a 45% increase in output intensity over stock. If you haven't followed this thread, it is important to note these are the new Korean Sylvanias, which utilize an HIR coating. The German Sylvanias (both made by Osram) do not and will be lower performing. More details in this post: Korean Sylvania HIRs.

    OEM LED vs Korean Sylvania 9011 HIRs
    4A245B38-B5D2-4B29-B840-9CEFAEB0C5B5_1_102_o.jpg

    The HIR high beam is nearly 62% higher output intensity than the stock OEM LEDs while also providing a more ideal beam pattern.

    OEM LED high beam vs Sylvania Korean 9011 HIR high beam
    708D02CC-1163-4A33-8781-E59BF05BE442.jpg

    Thanks to @NotATacoFC2 for reaching out and proving the OEM Honda assemblies for testing to help provide science based lighting data to other lighting communities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
  17. Jul 4, 2022 at 6:47 AM
    #5777
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2020
    Member:
    #328079
    Messages:
    4,073
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    San Diego
    Vehicle:
    2016 Tacoma OR DCSB 6MT, 2002 Tundra SR5 RCLB 4x4, 2005 RC 5MT Prerunner
    Similar to Odyssey it seems? Wish we had a 5000k low beam and 9011 high beam option on the Honda side.

    I’m closer every day to selling the 2016 and switching to a T4R for family hauling. Don’t think I’ll ever really get there but I get closer.
     
    NotATacoFC2 likes this.
  18. Jul 4, 2022 at 7:15 AM
    #5778
    replica9000

    replica9000 Insert witty title here.

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Member:
    #5782
    Messages:
    15,890
    Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
    Vehicle:
    2019 T4R ORP
    Buy one now before you need a kidney for a down payment!
     
  19. Jul 4, 2022 at 10:48 AM
    #5779
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2019
    Member:
    #311172
    Messages:
    392
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    99 4Runner SR5
    3" OME lift, heavy coils f/r 3/16" steel skids Modified Coastal Offroad diy bumper 5spd swap ('98 donor)
    Excellent review, and very cool to see results from other, non-toyota/non-pickup lamps. Always an excellent thing to see good testing to which others can be pointed for reference.
     
    crashnburn80 [OP] likes this.
  20. Jul 4, 2022 at 11:26 AM
    #5780
    CraigF

    CraigF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2020
    Member:
    #332105
    Messages:
    668
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Craig
    Oak Grove, OR
    Vehicle:
    06 AC PR OR 4.0L
    none yet
    If your taking requests, the Hyundai "spider eyes" on their newer vehicle.
    Would be interested in your thoughts/tests
     

Products Discussed in

To Top