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3rd Gen Traction Control Modes Explained

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by Doggman, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:11 AM
    #101
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    That table is old and specifically for 2009-2011 2nd gen Tacomas. They were different in 4Hi. Only 2 modes available. Default TRAC minus engine regulation and TRAC OFF VSC OFF. At some point they changed this to the current setup. Mode #4,5 and 6 listed in the OP.
     
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  2. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:25 AM
    #102
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    That's fair.
    You mean when it (AUTO LSD) is turned ON, yes?

    2WD TRAC OFF mode is AUTO LSD ON (this is in many Toyota info sheets, not just a couple).
    2009-2011 has no TRAC OFF light. They knew enough that in 4WD, the stronger traction with the engine regulation turned off would be best. It had no special name, it was simply called TRAC but without regulation. They just didn't offer the "weaker" TRAC as another mode, until 2012... seemingly to replace the stronger TRAC of 2009 and make a quick button push in H4 to get the stronger TRAC (now called TRAC OFF).

    Now, it is just fine with me if they decided to make the name TRAC OFF actually mean TRAC is turned OFF. It just isn't that way for 2nd Gens. It baffles logic that they denied stronger TRAC it on 3rd Gens.
     
  3. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:40 AM
    #103
    tonered

    tonered bartheloni

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    That looks good to me.

    Thanks for all the effort.
     
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  4. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:40 AM
    #104
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I meant when TRAC is turned off and ALSD is turned on.

    Perhaps. I won't believe it until someone proves it in a late 2nd gen though. I still believe the late 2nd gens are the same as 3rd gens.

    I get your logic above. Seems a reasonable path. But here's my version of the events.

    Pre 2011 Toyota knew TRAC with engine regulation could be troublesome. It didn't always work and in more than one scenario the engine regulation would render it useless. So to combat this in 4Hi they just removed the engine regulation without really saying anything. They noted it in some technical sheets but it wasn't a new mode and didn't have any special light.

    In 2012 or whenever it was they changed things up. They restored default 4Hi to be full TRAC engine regulation and all. Perhaps they improved TRAC as a whole and felt it would no longer be as troublesome as before. Many do report that it goes after the brakes before it cuts engine power so if 4Hi TRAC no engine regulation will get the job done then today's full on TRAC will get it done too. Obviously it wasn't good enough to remove the ability to turn it off though. Thus 4Hi TRAC OFF was born. And this is super straight forward. TRAC is off. Period. The purpose and existence of this mode has been explained, tested, proven, etc many times before in this and the other thread.
     
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  5. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:47 AM
    #105
    tonered

    tonered bartheloni

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    Just for general discussion, I'm curious in what way do you mean? Are you talking about the SR / SR5 / Sport / Limited versus the OR / Pro with the hydraulic booster? I'm definitely quite happy with what I found that I have. Other than the complexity that took time to understand, this has become one of the few electronic gizmos that I actually like.
     
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  6. Jan 29, 2018 at 11:51 AM
    #106
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    He means in the sense that TRAC without engine regulation is "stronger" than TRAC with engine regulation. While I would say this was true at one time, it may very well not be the case anymore. And perhaps that's why you only see TRAC or TRAC OFF now days.
     
  7. Jan 29, 2018 at 12:45 PM
    #107
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    I am talking ALL models.
    While maybe the traction control is a little stronger in the OFF ROAD 4x4, the main function of a hydraulic booster is the shear braking force needed for the A-TRAC device (or MTS) when four wheeling in a low range scenario (crawling) when there isn't as much engine vacuum created.

    Doggman answered correctly for me.
    I just don't agree that an open differential (no TRAC at all) is in any way a good thing off road, unless you like spinning tires. I also don't think VSC has a function unless you are moving and need to control sliding. Saying VSC is working at 0 mph is not logical. TRAC & AUTO LSD however, are made to work at 0 mph so you can move on. I am at a loss as to why a quick button push would be needed in H4 if it only removes engine regulation without controlling wheel spin. In H2... it turns on AUTO LSD (aka TRAC OFF MODE) which has no engine regulation but does have traction control... pretty good traction control.
     
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  8. Jan 29, 2018 at 12:48 PM
    #108
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    I love the no fighting part. Don't ever think my consistency is meant as arguing... I just want the truth (it is out there)!
     
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  9. Jan 29, 2018 at 12:50 PM
    #109
    tonered

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    I agree. That sounds reasonable to me.

    Open diff settings are only useful for goofing around. I do miss doing doughnuts in the snow. FWD cars are just boring. =P
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  10. Jan 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM
    #110
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree here. 4Hi TRAC OFF is not greater than 4Hi TRAC. Quite the opposite. I'd say in 95% of the scenarios 4Hi TRAC ON is going to get you the farthest. And this is the default mode.

    You don't press VSC Off to increase traction. You get max performance by default in 4Hi. The reason you press VSC Off and go to TRAC OFF is because you have gotten yourself in that 5% situation where TRAC is not helping, it's actually hurting. So you turn it off and attempt to "rock" yourself out. Toyota used this terminology and I know exactly what they mean by this. I've seen it happen in particular with a Tundra in wet grass. TRAC was just cutting power and making things worse because slip was crazy. Turned it off and just rung it out forward, reverse, forward, reverse and eventually it rocks itself out. This is no guarantee though...to be honest if you get stuck in 4Hi TRAC you most likely are not gonna get out with 4Hi TRAC OFF. Again, this is not a mode you go to for increased traction. This is a mode you go to when TRAC is proving detrimental.

    Would 4Hi ALSD be even better in this scenario and a good replacement for 4Hi TRAC OFF? Yes, but it's not what we got.

    Edit: Just thinking out loud here but a potential reason for not offering 4Hi ALSD is hierarchy. If you have 4Hi ALSD you might as well have 4Lo ALSD too. And at that point you aren't far off a "free" version of A-TRAC and MTS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  11. Jan 29, 2018 at 3:17 PM
    #111
    BigWhiteTRD

    BigWhiteTRD Official thread killer (only crickets remain)

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    It means that the button does nothing. I could not make any change in modes using the VSC off button, in 4 LO. (Short press, long press, not moving... no lights changed.)

    On mine, per dash signals and lights, etc. MTS and crawl are exclusive. You don't have both on, just one or other. I will double check and see what happens if you turn on one and hit the other, but I remember it cancels the first, except for CC you must be in D or R, so it won't cancel MTS if you are in park, neutral, etx.

    I plan to do some double checking with Techstream tomorrow, to try and validate modes vs Techstream reports.
     
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  12. Jan 29, 2018 at 3:33 PM
    #112
    BigWhiteTRD

    BigWhiteTRD Official thread killer (only crickets remain)

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    I will give a full dash photo/mode album tomorrow.
    I will also try to give a Techstream values for each.

    Sorry, I have not been concentrating on this project lately, but i will have Techstream on for another project, so I will see what I can find for each mode...
     
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  13. Jan 29, 2018 at 3:47 PM
    #113
    Topanga Taco

    Topanga Taco BUZZING NITRO

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    Yeeeeees. Think outside this damn box we created! I pointed at this a while back because of the crazy traction some of us have been experiencing. Perhaps they didn't find a need to turn on the ALSD light.
     
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  14. Jan 29, 2018 at 6:17 PM
    #114
    Thechief86

    Thechief86 Well-Known Member

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    I got my Taco stuck yesterday, scouting out new hunting land. I was on a steep, muddy side hill, and couldn' track straight, and couldn't climb back up to the actual trail.
    I had the truck in 4lo, and had pushed the button for 3 seconds or whatever to see how it did with TRAC OFF. This is what screwed me. After pushing the button again to turn TRAC back on, and bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd gear for a few minutes, I was able to get the truck turned around and back onto level enough ground to stop the sideways downhill slide. My hunting buddies had to push on the driver front fender a bit to help me turn, but at least we didn't have to get another truck to pull me out.
    From here we continued on foot, lest we have the same troubles and ultimately slide into a tree and damage my precious pickup.
    My friend in the Ford Raptor had ditched his truck to ride with me several miles ago, afraid he'd get stuck beyond my Taco's capacity to pull him out. He paid over 50 grand for that beast, used, with 60k miles, so I'm mighty proud of my $25k 4 banger base model truck right about now, haha.
    When we made it back out of the woods, my sweet little truck slipped into 2hi, and carried us 2 hours back into town, as if it had never been off the pavement. Very cool indeed.
     
  15. Jan 29, 2018 at 6:41 PM
    #115
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting. Sounds like there's no engine regulation in 4Lo TRAC. Not entirely surprising but a new data point for sure. Would be good if someone can figure out if the same is true for 4Hi TRAC. It very well could be.
     
  16. Jan 29, 2018 at 6:46 PM
    #116
    PB FAB

    PB FAB Well-Known Member

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    I was testing 4H today and the truck would not rev over 2000 rpm, with and without trac on. I need a larger/sandier hill to test on. No conclusion yet.
     
  17. Jan 30, 2018 at 6:39 AM
    #117
    Topanga Taco

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    Good deal, things are starting to fall into place.
     
  18. Jan 30, 2018 at 7:17 AM
    #118
    tonered

    tonered bartheloni

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    And, stickied!

    Sweet!
     
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  19. Jan 30, 2018 at 8:13 AM
    #119
    BigWhiteTRD

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    Did a full photo shoot for OR AUTO and I was more careful at examining the Crawl Control and MTS. Crawl control and MTS are NOT mutually exclusive. You can have Crawl Control on with or without MTS. However, you can't turn MTS on and off with Crawl Control On. You have to turn MTS on or off before turning on Crawl. (So in reality MTS may or may not really be doing anything in the background when Crawl is on. I don't really know.) But the dash lights do indicate MTS is ON or OFF in the background during Crawl.

    Note, this spreadsheet is ONLY pictures and Techstream data, not really useful for everybody, so don't download it looking for anything actually useful for most people.

    I grabbed the default data list for the VSC/TRAC system and for the 4WD system. At quick glance, I didn't see much useful in the Techstream data, but there may be some useful comparison for TRAC settings from trim to trim, or mode to mode that I didn't see. Any questions, hit me.

    Sorry, no time to really analyze this data for now.

    So just for reference, by more careful observations of the dash lights, the OR auto 'modes' I see are:

    2Hi default
    2Hi VSC short press
    2Hi VSC long press
    4hi default
    4hi VSC short press
    4hi VSC long press
    4Lo default
    4Lo MTS
    4Lo Crawl Control
    4Lo MTS+Crawl Control
    4Lo Rear Locker
    4Lo MTS+Rear Locker
    4Lo Crawl Control+Rear Locker
    4Lo MTS+Crawl Control+Rear Locker

    (but in reality, I am not sure Crawl Control + MTS is any different from just CC, but not sure)
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Jan 30, 2018 at 9:57 AM
    #120
    Doggman

    Doggman [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff. I'll look through it and make the updates to OP.
     
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