1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

3RZ Balance Shaft Delete

Discussion in '4 Cylinder' started by sachou, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. May 15, 2015 at 1:24 PM
    #41
    Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Member:
    #154752
    Messages:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    John
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Not a Tacoma yet...
    Not Toyota, but the concept is the same: swapping a 2.4 into an early Neon requires deleting the balance shafts. Having driven one with that swap, I noted only a slight vibration at idle. From just off-idle to redline, no problem.

    Also, 1987-95 Dakotas used the old K-car OHC 4-banger. The FWD 2.5's had balance shafts, the truck did not. (No space between the framerails.) Again: slight shake at idle, nothing more.

    Caveat: all the above vehicles had manual transmissions. An automatic (and its lower in-gear idle RPM's) might shake more noticeably.

    I read an article (seems to be on a now-gone site) from an SAE engineer...the benefit isn't so much power, but the reduction in oil windage at high RPM's. (Especially on the high-winding Neon.)

    Edit: just noticed this is a 5-year-old thread. :(
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
  2. May 15, 2015 at 1:39 PM
    #42
    45acp

    45acp Paint me back in Wyoming again...

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Member:
    #20861
    Messages:
    6,704
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jonathan
    Boring, Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    1981 Long bed 4x4
    I can't speak for other engines, but in regards to the 3RZ I can't imagine the balance shafts create any windage and if they do, it would be negligible. The shafts are tucked quite significantly into the walls of the block, above any oil getting pulled up from the pan.

    On a side note, I'll be installing a scraper in my engine build.

    http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Toyota_2rz.html
     
  3. May 15, 2015 at 1:43 PM
    #43
    Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Member:
    #154752
    Messages:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    John
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Not a Tacoma yet...
    If they spin and are oiled, they create at least SOME...though maybe not much.
     
  4. Sep 1, 2018 at 5:33 AM
    #44
    westly7

    westly7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Member:
    #172418
    Messages:
    194
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Westley
    Vehicle:
    01 tacoma 2.7 auto 2wd
    Bringing back old thread but i’ve done it with the kit from LCE performance kit,no vibration it just too late for my 3rz the crankshaft bearings were failing 3FF9AE37-E359-4194-9C7A-9D38B474C1A8.jpg
     
  5. Dec 12, 2019 at 10:13 AM
    #45
    Brake Weight

    Brake Weight But it hasn't rained in weeks...I'll make it.

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Member:
    #147363
    Messages:
    2,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Deep South near the Third Coast
    Vehicle:
    Taco pulling 33s and a B6 pushing 33psi
    Weld on sliders, fiberglass shell, 12k winch in an Elite Offroad bumper, front Aussie Lunchbox
    Considering this for mine just because. When removing them and flipping the front bearings as well as plugging the oil journal, this is what drives up oil pressure. But what about the backside bearings the other end of the shafts ride in? No speak of them aside from 1 or 2 failing.

    If not using the LCE kit could the balance shaft chain tensioner be put back on to make use of that oil jet for the timing chain?
     
  6. Apr 6, 2020 at 7:40 AM
    #46
    MNSuperTaco

    MNSuperTaco Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Member:
    #246985
    Messages:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    04 Tacoma 3RZ 4x4
    3" Lift, Supercharger, Header, Exhaust
    Bumping this old thread one more time. I'm tearing down the 3rz in my 04 Tacoma right now, and I have the delete kit for the counterbalance shafts and the "basic" timing kit. My truck is 4wd, so I'm battling between dropping the front axle off, which I'd need more hi-lift capability than I have currently, or lift the engine enough to both get the oil pan off and get good access to install it all. I am at 250k miles, so I'm due for the timing set. I can see that the tensioner is clicked waaay out for the main chain, so it's stretched out a bit. The actual reason I'm tearing the motor apart, is because of a cylinder one misfire, which turns out to be one broken exhaust valve it looks like, and a number of other valves that the clearances are way too tight. You can see on a few of the cam lobes where they've been making light contact with the top of the bucket at all times, meaning there is zero clearance for the cam. I always wondered if I needed to be checking the clearances. And although it's a pain in the ass to take the valve cover off and do it, it's definitely easier than what I'm trying to do right now! And truthfully you could hear that the exhaust valves weren't sealing through the tailpipe. The truck became very puttery and sputtery there towards the end. This truck lived through 14 Minnesota winters And probably saw a mountain of salt come through the undercarriage. I was always religious about washing it, but she's rusty! But the more I look at it, it's actually just fine. I'm hoping to see another quarter of a million miles out of it anyway! It got me to where I live now too with all of my stuff, before it gave up. Now I live near the ocean where the salt is attacking it in the air. Anyways, if anyone who's completed this job could give me a recommendation about getting around my four-wheel drive, I'd appreciate the input! Or does anyone know if I can lift the engine and the transmission together, maybe disconnect the drive shaft and loosen all the bolts for the transmission mount? I just want to pick it up about 6 or 8 in., or whatever the firewall will allow me.
     
  7. Aug 3, 2020 at 10:26 AM
    #47
    nickdaq

    nickdaq Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Member:
    #335826
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nick
    Vehicle:
    '02 ex cab 2.7L 5speed 4x4
    northeastern rust and a newish frame
    SuperTaco, did you ever get around to the tear down? I may be doing this delete soon (I have a knock that could be one of the balance shafts) and I'll be working around my front diff. I saw a video a while ago where someone dropped the diff without pulling the CV's or disconnecting the motor mounts. The guy just jacked up the engine and transmission as far as the mounts would let it go and dropped the diff as far as it would go. I couldn't find the video again, though.
     
  8. Aug 3, 2020 at 10:36 AM
    #48
    nickdaq

    nickdaq Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Member:
    #335826
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nick
    Vehicle:
    '02 ex cab 2.7L 5speed 4x4
    northeastern rust and a newish frame
    also, I found this video of some guy doing the delete without the LCE kit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqmqDHOMxNo

    I kinda like Blount's idea of just cutting the chain and leaving the shafts in, though. It really simplifies things, and I don't care too much about the 10lb weight savings. If the knock is, in fact, a balance shaft then that's probably what I'll do, just so I don't have to take the timing case off.
     
  9. Aug 3, 2020 at 11:38 AM
    #49
    MNSuperTaco

    MNSuperTaco Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Member:
    #246985
    Messages:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    04 Tacoma 3RZ 4x4
    3" Lift, Supercharger, Header, Exhaust
    So, I did indeed remove the front axle. It was harder to get out than it went back in, The main difficulty was twisting the unit forward while lifting with a jack, to clear the pin that is inserted straight down into the crossmember under the truck. Otherwise,the front two bolts Are all that hold it into place,once the axles are free from the hubs. I will say this, I left the driver's side axle in, and removed the passenger side axle, because it had a torn boot anyway. Now, after about a thousand miles, I have a slow leak on both sides of the axle to CV connection. Which is very frustrating, that I have to pull those CV shafts out and pop new seals in there. So that would be something to look for, being very gentle on those connections where the CV axle goes into the main axle housing. Lots of sideways force on those and you'll have leaks.
     
    nickdaq likes this.
  10. Aug 3, 2020 at 11:43 AM
    #50
    MNSuperTaco

    MNSuperTaco Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Member:
    #246985
    Messages:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    04 Tacoma 3RZ 4x4
    3" Lift, Supercharger, Header, Exhaust
    And, on the balance shaft delete situation, You have to remove the main timing chain assembly, to get the balance subassembly off of there, I'm pretty sure. From underneath, you don't really have access to that chain. And from above, not at all, as there's only enough room for the main timing chain to pass through the cylinder head. So I'm not sure how you would do it without removing the timing cover. All of that was pretty simple with the radiator out of the way.
     
  11. Aug 3, 2020 at 2:13 PM
    #51
    nickdaq

    nickdaq Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Member:
    #335826
    Messages:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nick
    Vehicle:
    '02 ex cab 2.7L 5speed 4x4
    northeastern rust and a newish frame
    Good to know. I probably would have been pretty rough on those connections otherwise.

    I should have read a little closer when I went back to quote. Blount pulled his balance shafts, but some other people just cut the chain and left the balance shafts in place. I think most of them

    hmm I guess Ill just have to see if I can reach it. I'm still holding out hope that I can avoid taking the timing cover off, but if that turns out to be wishful thinking I'll dig a little deeper and replace the timing chain while I'm in there.
     
  12. Aug 3, 2020 at 2:19 PM
    #52
    Tacman19

    Tacman19 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2020
    Member:
    #316444
    Messages:
    2,240
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dave
    Mid Missouri
    Vehicle:
    19 Tacoma SOLD
    As many as I can fabricate
    Thus why Audi had the 5cyl that would rev to 167,891 RPM and last 1.3 million miles...lol
    Zim
     
    SC4333[QUOTED] likes this.
  13. Aug 5, 2020 at 9:28 AM
    #53
    MNSuperTaco

    MNSuperTaco Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Member:
    #246985
    Messages:
    12
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    04 Tacoma 3RZ 4x4
    3" Lift, Supercharger, Header, Exhaust
    I think I am mistaken, and you can see that chain from underneath. I looked through all my photos and can't find any of that specific spot! But the bottom of the timing cover provides full access to the front end once the oil pan and oil pick-up are out of the way.
     
    nickdaq likes this.
  14. Sep 19, 2021 at 1:46 PM
    #54
    mataco4wd

    mataco4wd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Member:
    #188515
    Messages:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    994wd
    Old thread but I daily drive a shaft deleted 3rz. Doesn't vibrate any more than stock imo. Using stock engine mounts.
     
  15. Oct 16, 2021 at 4:02 PM
    #55
    USMILRET

    USMILRET Tacoma Owner

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2020
    Member:
    #326344
    Messages:
    544
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    1998, 2007 and 2020 Tacoma
    When I made the decision to rebuild my 3RZ FE I took the opportunity to delete both balance shafts. The engine was starving of oil because the oil pickup tube was 99% clogged. The driver's side balance shaft rear bearing starved first and this is where all of the noise was coming from. There was no reason to reinstall the balance shaft chain so it was left out. Both from balance shaft oil bearings were repositioned 90 degrees to block their oil passages. I have had the engine running for a couple of weeks now and cannot determine if there is a difference in vibration and am happy with the delete.
     
    mataco4wd and Brake Weight like this.

Products Discussed in

To Top