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Aaron's DCLB Multi-purpose, Anti-committal Build and Adventure Log

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by CRASHMAN50, Jun 15, 2020.

  1. Jun 15, 2020 at 9:37 AM
    #1
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
    Member:
    #242257
    Messages:
    345
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    Male
    First Name:
    AA-ron
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    I never particularly thought that I needed a build thread. It'd be cool to have, you know. But my truck won't be outfitted like some of these other trucks. It's a daily driven, needs to do lots of various things type of vehicle for me. You'll probably see that through the path this vehicle build has taken and will take.

    It's anti-committal because I dislike many of the compromises some additions/mods make. For example, camper shells. They can make for great dry storage, possible sleeping platform setups. But removing it to haul one tall item, like an over size air compressor, wouldn't be feasible. Decked systems are rad, but as long as I don't have the ability to run a full height bed rack, I wouldn't have room for coolers/totes under the RTT. Conflicting needs like that keep me up at night. :help:

    Anyway, let's start from the beginning:



    Here's out it was when I had first bought it. It's a 2017 TRD Off Road DCLB with tech package.
    upload_2020-6-15_10-25-58.jpg


    I made the choice early on that I wanted the long bed, predominantly because I was thinking about going the sleeping platform route. Being 6'2", it'd work out fine. The extra foot has proved very helpful during my time driving it. No regrets at all. When I bought the truck, I also had a little Hyundai Accent that I thought I'd drive to and from work...that didn't last long. There's times I'd still like to have a second vehicle, but I'd rather have a little more interesting project car if I do. The Hyundai was fine, but...you know.


    After tint (15% back glass and rear doors, 35% front doors, and 5% eyebrow), my first mod was diff breathers. I forget how many miles were on the truck when I did it, but it definitely had a vacuum. The idea on the diff breathers is that there is basically a pressure pop off valve on the differentials that release air pressure as they heat up when driving. However, they are one-way. No air reenters the system as the system cools; thus, creating a vacuum. Normally a non-issue, the chance of issues arise when hot differentials are drug through a water crossing - rapidly reducing the temperature inside the differential. The quick temp change can draw water in while in the crossing. Installing breathers opens the system to move air more freely as temps change. As a result, diff oil might need to be maintained more frequently. There's a lot of discussion on the forum about them, and I thought it would be a good idea for me.

    I have my rear diff breather behind the driver's side taillight:
    upload_2020-6-15_10-47-4.jpg


    At some point, I added CBI ditch light brackets and Yakima Corebar crossbars.
    upload_2020-6-15_10-48-55.jpg

    The crossbars were limiting for me:

    1. They were loud. They screamed at anything over 40 mph. I ended up wrapping bungie cord around them, and that helped a lot. But they still made noise.
    2. They weren't as handy as I wanted. Without mounting points in the bar and without proper kayak holders, the only place to strap to was the "towers." If this wasn't done right, the kayak could slide all crazy and try to fall off. Ask me how I know.


    And then:
    upload_2020-6-15_10-55-16.jpg

    Tore up the bedside leaving lunch with my friend one day when the wind caught his driver door as I was pulling away. Had to get new bedside, wheel, tire, etc. All repaired now. Somewhere, I have the picture of his door peeled all the way backwards.


    I added a softopper:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-4-59.jpg
    upload_2020-6-15_11-5-16.jpg

    I did sleep a night or two in the back under the softopper, but it isn't a completely waterproof solution. I argue with myself about how handy it is. In cold temps, it can be hard to raise/lower. And, of course, most of the times when I needed it when hunting/camping have been in colder temperatures. The rails for it are still on my truck, but I have considered getting rid of it as I don't use it much.

    The softopper ties in directly to what I said earlier about compromises and being anti-committal. Again, I'm torn on how much I like it. But with the RTT I have now and not wanting to get a full rack for it over my softopper, I don't see myself using the softopper.


    I added a couple cheapo Amazon curved light bars behind the grill:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-10-28.jpg

    I now have a 40" Rigid on my roof rack; so, these are pretty much pointless. I'll pull them off and put them on a boat probably.


    Here's that reason I mentioned about not wanting a hard camper shell:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-12-29.jpg

    ^Uber sketch^


    Speaking of sketch, I got Mobtown bolt on sliders while I still lived in the apartment. Still painted them there though!
    upload_2020-6-15_11-15-32.jpg

    I know. Ventilation. Blah blah. ^Worked^
    Only passed out twice. Hahaha, kidding.


    About this time, I started thinking about suspension needs.
    upload_2020-6-15_11-18-1.jpg

    At current I don't have a lot of stuff to tow, but I do get conned into towing other people's stuff. Once I learned how to back up with them, they became kinda fun. To a point, of course, they get to be a handle before long too.

    I hated this one:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-20-16.jpg
    It was more than I wanted. No dual axle, tilting, car haulers for me anymore, thank you. Oof.


    Then I pulled the Yakima bars off and installed a Sherpa Co. rack:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-22-44.jpg
    upload_2020-6-15_11-23-9.jpg

    The main difference between this rack and the Prinsu is how the actual rack attaches to the feet. The feet on the Sherpa are directly under crossbars, and therefore, the weight on the rack rests directly on the feet, instead of being transferred from the crossbars to the side plate and then to the feet. That's how I believe the Prinsu is. This should technically be stouter since it doesn't completely rely on the shear (?) strength of the bolts holding the cross bars in. Either way, I'm a fan of Sherpa and would recommend their racks.

    I made these neat little tie downs for it.
    upload_2020-6-15_11-27-16.jpg

    These prove especially useful when attaching the kayak, or anything really. These can be moved along the extrusion crossbar so that the strap pulls the boat directly down to the rack, and that angle is incredibly better at stabilizing a load compared to tying off to both sides of the rack, ie.

    They are each a 1/4-20 carriage bolt, washer of some sort, 1/4-20 nut for a spacer, and a 1/4-20 eye nut. If you have a shorter carriage bolt, you don't need the spacer nut obviously. They work well.



    Boat season:
    upload_2020-6-15_11-31-17.jpg

    You can also see where I plasti-dipped the grill black and installed the 40" Rigid lightbar. And yes, I plasti-dipped the grill in my apartment's second bathtub. Harbor Freight blue tarp for the win.
    I traded my sit-in blue kayak in for this sit-on grey kayak in the attempt of hunting with it. I've rigged up a trolling motor mount to it, and the day this picture was taken, we were heading out to test it. Jon boat as backup. As a note, I duck hunted in the timber with the kayak once. It's a handle. Private land could work, but it's still a handle.



    Next up: Suspension changes begin.
     
    Interbeing and Skydvrr like this.
  2. Jun 15, 2020 at 9:48 AM
    #2
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    345
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    Male
    First Name:
    AA-ron
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    Suspension seems to be something that never ends.


    I first had a Wheeler's AAL, Dobinson's C59-314, and Dobinson's shocks all around.
    upload_2020-6-15_11-39-42.jpg

    Issue was the weight up front. The Mobtown sliders are great, but they do add weight. I had also added a steel IFS skid from Mobtown. That's heavy too. I underestimated the weight of them, and the front sagged more than it should.


    I then acquired a CVT extended Summit Mt. Rainier locally off a guy selling his camping stuff. It got mounted on KB Voodoo hi-rise crossbars.
    upload_2020-6-15_11-43-9.jpg

    The KB Voodoo crossbars seem kinda finicky. I've got a chain hoist in my garage to install/remove the tent, but the crossbars get bound up with their mounts and make it hard to get the tent off easily. I'm considering making my own bed height tall crossbars out of extrusion, but I haven't done it yet. These hi-rise bars also seem to chatter a lot with the tent on. BUT, I haven't fully associated that rattling with the bar/mount area or the bar/tent area. Needs investigation probably.


    Like I said, the C59-314's weren't enough, so I upped to C59-352's. They're 730# coils; so, they're stout. Stout enough that I'm considering a winch more and more. At that same time, I changed out the stock pack + AAL for medium Dakars. I ALSO changed the UCAs for SPC UCAs.
    upload_2020-6-15_11-47-56.jpg
     
    Tora likes this.
  3. Jun 15, 2020 at 9:56 AM
    #3
    ardrummer292

    ardrummer292 Resisting G.A.S.

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    Overbuilt daily driver
    Curious to hear your opinions about the Dobinsons suspension setup. I have a full Dobinsons kit (front coils + shocks, rear leaf packs + shocks) sitting in my living room right now.
     
  4. Jun 15, 2020 at 11:16 AM
    #4
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    It's kind of a multi-faceted comment really. I can speak to the Dobinson's stuff that I've had, but I can also only compare it to what I had directly before. But with that caveat, the initial 314's (590#, I think) that I had up front rode great for a while. Actually, they rode nice all the time I had them for the most part. Before those, I had the added weight of sliders and that IFS skid on the squatted stock coils. This made it ride rough, sit low, and didn't look as good either. The 314's lifted it up, and it rode nicer as the suspension was no longer suffering from hitting the rock wall of sagging, precompressed coils (pretty sure those aren't technically correct words, but you know what I mean). But, as the weight that I didn't particularly account for began sagging the 314's, it started to hit that rock wall upon compression like before. Not nearly as bad as stock, but it still did.

    Now, with the 352's, I'm probably over-sprung. I like to say that it rides stiff. BUT, unlike the lower # coils that were squatted, the 352's actually feel to have proper travel of the suspension. Still stiff, mind you, but the suspension moves the way it should despite the added weight. I think having a hidden winch mounted up front will do good things for the ride.

    Shock-wise, they're fine. The only comparison I have is to the stock Bilstein 4600s. Any complaints I had with that stock setup were to blame on the springs not handling the added weight. I do think these Dobinson's shocks allow the truck to roll in corners more. I'm not confident in the same at-speed, on-road cornering that I used to be. That lies somewhere in the combination of, primarily, the shocks but also in the truck sitting higher (higher center of gravity). I forget which is progressive and which is digressive, but Dobinson's and Billie's are opposites. The Dobinson's will induce more body roll, but the Billie's will be harsher on sudden impacts from the road, I would think. No personal experience with 5100s. Digressive and progressive is the difference there.

    I got medium Dakars for leaf packs, and they're stiffer. But they're also rated for constant 300# over stock all the time. I'm probably at half that. But I will say, with the AAL and full medium Dakar leaf pack, that sine wave vibration feeling that would happen with the stock truck when going over speed bumps went away. You'd probably experience that with the new Dobinson's leaf pack too.

    I don't think you'll be disappointed with Dobinson's. A lot of it depends on your added weight and coil selection. I need to go back and add it to the original post, but I also did the ECGS bushing when I first put Dobinson's in. So, I haven't had any experience with a lifted truck without that in there.
     
  5. Jun 15, 2020 at 11:40 AM
    #5
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    345
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    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    The first night I took the CVT out it was in the 20s. The insulation pad on the bottom of the tent along with my Grizzly sleeping bag kept me warm...enough.
    upload_2020-6-15_13-33-48.jpg
    ^also, camera's at a angle, obviously. lol

    I also carry cheap, X-Bull recovery boards. I bought them on Amazon for less that $100/pair, I think. They don't seat together nicely like Maxtrax, but they do their job. I've used them for leveling like below; I've also used them to recovery my dumb riding lawn mower when I was too ambitious, along with a few other various vehicles. Not my own truck yet, just other people's.
    upload_2020-6-15_13-34-24.jpg

    Incidentally, this is how the tent gets stored when I'm not planning on camping.
    upload_2020-6-15_13-37-20.jpg

    Yes, I put the tent on once using 16' 2x4's. It...uhh...*worked. But it isn't ideal. I now have a chain hoist, which works well. But, it would work much better if my ceiling had two more feet to it. That's part of the reason I'd like to go with slightly lower crossbars over the bed. I'm toying with the idea of getting some aluminum extrusion lengths and making custom brackets to hold it to the factory bed rails (the same way the KB Voodoo ones mount). I just haven't done that yet.
     
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  6. Jun 15, 2020 at 12:31 PM
    #6
    ardrummer292

    ardrummer292 Resisting G.A.S.

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    2015 DCLB V6 A/T 4x4 1D6
    Overbuilt daily driver
    Great input on the Dobs, thanks! I personally went for their short 730 lb coils (C59-350) on their extended-travel shocks with taller coil set (GS59-220). I'm going to get an ARB front bumper and big, beefy skid plate in the near future, so I'll cope with the rough ride for now. I also have a set of Avid Offroad bolt-on sliders that I need to find time to install.

    For the back end, I went for their shocks (GS59-940) paired with their medium/heavy leaf pack (L59-111-R), because they said DCLB trucks tend to get 1" less rear-end lift than DCSB. I'm not going to have much permanent weight back there: maybe 200 lbs total accounting for the bed mat, tonneau cover, grease gun, oil, ratchet straps, etc. From what I understand, I can expect a touch over 2" of rear-end lift with that load and spring setup.

    This might be blasphemy to some, but I like the cushy "vague" ride of progressive shocks. Digressive shocks (like Bilstein) always felt jarring when negotiating pothole-infested east coast highways. Good if you really want to feel the road, but my trail limo is no race car.

    Did your Dobs shocks give you any trouble? Leaking, failure, etc?
     
  7. Jun 15, 2020 at 12:50 PM
    #7
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    AA-ron
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    They haven't. I kept the same shocks every time I've swapped springs around. They've probably only got 7,500 miles on them now. I got the shocks with the standard coil seat, but I'd be interested to hear how those turn out for you when you get your ARB going. I want to keep my truck at about 2" over stock if possible. I'm afraid to venture past 2.5" for fear of CV boots/angles/etc. being less than ideal. I don't mind the vagueness you mentioned either, but having strong, stiff springs also probably help balance that out. Overall, I'm happy. It's no baja prerunner, but building a truck for that kind of driving brings on a whole other set of modifications needed besides just shocks and springs.

    I've seriously thought about an ARB myself, but I'm honestly not sure I need that just yet. I think just a hidden winch will be the ticket for now. But I would love to hear about your experiences when you get all that installed! :thumbsup:
     
  8. Jun 15, 2020 at 2:33 PM
    #8
    ardrummer292

    ardrummer292 Resisting G.A.S.

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    Overbuilt daily driver
    I know for a fact that I don't need an ARB bumper, and probably never will. I'm adding it as pre-emptive insurance in case I get in a nasty wreck. The stock bumper protects passengers the best, and most aftermarket offroad bumpers protect the truck very well, but only ARB protects both.
     
    CRASHMAN50 [OP] likes this.
  9. Aug 3, 2020 at 7:48 AM
    #9
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    So I removed the rear seat and the panel behind it maybe a month ago. It's kinda noisy without it, but I knew I wanted to go rear seat delete. I keep plenty of tools with me cuz you never know where you'll need them. These people that run around with no tools blow my mind.

    I had some plywood from a floor I removed sitting around; so, I had no reason to not go ahead and work on it. It's cut to fit and bolted using the OEM seat mount holes. They're M8-1.25 x 50mm with fender washers for the floor. I have a feeling I'm going to need longer ones for the back piece if I mount it directly to the sheet metal. I'm also considering cutting a strip of wood to mount to the sheet metal right under the rear window and mounting the back sheet to that. That would allow me to manipulate the angle of that strip so it would seat nicely to the back sheet of plywood. That's my thought at current: subject to change when I actually get to it.

    upload_2020-8-3_9-44-28.jpg
    upload_2020-8-3_9-44-46.jpg

    I can already tell it will be way more space efficient storage for my tools, which will allow room for a cooler in the middle and room for my dog or gear storage on the other side.

    It just needs the back sheet mounted, paint/bedliner it all, sound insulated, and install tie down anchors. I opted for some triangle type mounts that are very similar to the OEM ones installed in the bed. L track is cool but dang expensive. Should be safer in the unfortunate event of a wreck too. Having some of that heavy stuff anchored to something solid would be a big positive in that instance, I'd think.
     
  10. Feb 26, 2021 at 7:46 AM
    #10
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
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    Messages:
    345
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    AA-ron
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    Update time:

    I got a set of Cooper ST Maxx's in 265/75r16 about 7,500 miles ago, and I'm a huge fan so far. You can definitely tell the difference moving to an E rated tire over the Goodyear stockies. Having some burlier tires was definitely one of my desires though. And let's be real, it'd no mpg queen anyways. I run them as close to 30psi as I can. I did not adjust them when it got stupid cold this year and was running 27psi or so in the snow. I haven't gotten to go on a good camping trip yet; so, most the dirt road miles the Coopers have seen was just duck hunting a little.

    upload_2021-2-26_8-45-16.jpg

    They did a phenomenal job in the ice and snow! I rolled around town in 4wd when the roads were snow on ice, and I didn't feel sketchy. You can tell in this picture below that the front of my truck has sagged more than what I'd like. I'll end up getting remote resi Fox's all around at some point. Changing out the different Dobinson's coils was just frustrating to me. :( My dream is to go ARB bumper up front, and I'll match the spring rate to that whenever I do it. The Dobinson's ride fine, but Fox coilovers is where I see myself going eventually.

    upload_2021-2-26_8-49-1.jpg

    Another thing I've done is I've purchased this trailer:

    upload_2021-2-26_8-53-52.jpg

    It's a Safari Equipment USA trailer, and I've been unable to find that much info about them. There's a thread on some forum from 2014 about them, but that's all I've seen. It'll be a neat setup since I can mount the CVT to it, back it in the garage, and hook up to it whenever I feel like camping. The kbvoodoo bars I had worked fine, but the hoist on my garage ceiling is about 6 inches too short for it to be a simple mount/unmount. The lug pattern is 6x5.5; so regular toyota wheels will fit, but it either needs spacers or a slightly longer axle to clear the back of the tires:

    upload_2021-2-26_9-8-0.jpg

    That'll give me the opportunity to run what's left of the Goodyear stockies, and I'll get a little more clearance.

    The trailer is really pretty simple. The main box lid opens up with gas shocks, has a side-opening door for the rear, has two toploaders, and a standard tongue box. It needs some paint which will hopefully get addressed once it warms up a bit. I'd like it to be a dark grey color to kind of go with the truck's MGM paint. It'd be really cool to have onboard water and electrics built out in it. But honestly, I need to take it on some trips to get a feel for what I really need.

    Having the trailer setup with the CVT will be great. I just can't live without an open bed anymore now that I have a dog, and the hassle of putting the tent on was keeping me from going.

    Shameless Winston picture:

    upload_2021-2-26_9-0-52.jpg

    That rear seat delete (that still isn't painted/bedlined/carpeted :facepalm:) works great for putting a crate back there for him. Problem is, he isn't used to riding around yet and throws up everywhere...
    As long as the weather isn't junk or until I get a good road-worthy kennel, he'll hang out in a regular crate on nice days until he decides to not throw up everywhere. What a cute jerk lol.

    I did acquire a small Engel fridge/freezer with the trailer that I currently have sitting on the rear seat delete. As it sits, it only comes on when the ignition's on, and that might cut it in the summer. I may hardwire it in if it'll need to run a lot more in the dead of summer. I'm thinking my current truck battery is aging and could stand to be replaced. I believe I could replace it and run the fridge off the regular battery since I drive it every day, and I don't think it uses that much power. I believe it's this one:

    https://engelcoolers.com/products/mt17-portable-acdc-fridge

    It'd be really nice to have cold waters and stuff in the truck without having to manage ice all the time like with my cooler. It'd be handy.

    I will comment too on the rear seat delete. I love it for putting gear in the truck; however, my current tool storage situation doesn't stay tidy. The cheapo home depot keep all the tools separated well, but they're a pain to take apart to get one thing only to have to stack them all back up. If they were sitting with the handles straight up and could be pulled out as needed, that'd be nice. It's making me consider going to a bed toolbox. I've got the 6' bed, and I've recently noticed that I leave my Amazon special traction boards up there all the time. So I wonder if I'm not actually using that space that much? I've looked at crossover boxes, and those seem expensive for how break-in resistant they are. It leaves me thinking about this:

    upload_2021-2-26_9-43-24.jpg

    At 42" wide, it should fit just within the wheel wells.
    https://www.lifebetterbuilt.com/products/jobsite/JobsiteStorage/2042-BB

    Quite a few contractors run 48"/60" job boxes in their diesel truck beds around here, and I love that this one is grey...
    Not a lot of job boxes mounted in tacoma beds from what I've been able to find, but those boxes are pretty tough comparatively speaking. I'm open to suggestions haha


    To be continued...
     
  11. Apr 9, 2021 at 11:58 AM
    #11
    CRASHMAN50

    CRASHMAN50 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2018
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    Messages:
    345
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    AA-ron
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    17 Tacoma TRD Off Road DCLB
    Sherpa Equipment Co. rack, CVT Mt. Rainier, Mobtown sliders, 40" Rigid light bar, Dobinsons suspension w/Med. Dakars
    Well, the rear seat delete has been fun, and maybe it'd be more useful to somebody who's going for a full expedition rig setup. But in reality, it's kinda noisy, and my tools/gear just won't exactly stay in place. I have tie downs installed on it, but who wants to tie down stuff every time? Boxes, even if messy, contain all the gear. And there are times that I really would like to have the seats in the back. Not often, but every once in a while. So, I went the job box route.

    upload_2021-4-9_13-38-48.jpg

    It's a Better Built 2042. 42" is as wide as you can go between the fender wells. There's about a 7 inch gap on both sides of the box up at the front. This Better Built jobbox has the square holes in the feet for 3/8" carriage bolts. There's 2 carriage bolt holes on each foot, but the outside ones are 1" from each corner, both ways. I ran 3" long bolts, but could have gotten away with 2" ones. This maybe adds to the security of it, who knows. With good locks in it, you can still break into these boxes if you have enough time, but they're a handle. Nylon locknuts and fender washers are a must. The rearward bolts could be cut with a reciprocating saw, but the front ones are not nearly as accessible. It'd take about as much time to cut them off as it would to undo them with a ratchet wrench (which, btw, is the only good way to run locknuts down 3" bolts in a confined space). Unfortunately for installers and potential "uninstallers" alike, none of the bolts really have access to run deep-well sockets.

    A 2x8" worked great for me to set the space between the front of the bed so the lid clears the glass nicely:

    upload_2021-4-9_13-50-10.jpg
    upload_2021-4-9_13-50-36.jpg
    upload_2021-4-9_13-51-14.jpg

    Aside from organization stuff on the interior of the box, I plan to add foam gasket around the lip of the lid and pipe insulation around the side handles (because the clank). I'm a big fan so far, and I'll be glad to have some seating back for friends occasionally (but not too much...).
     

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    Otto-x likes this.

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