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ADS Off-Road Racing Shocks - Information, Pictures, & BS Thread

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by TaylorU, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Jan 26, 2020 at 6:42 PM
    #3781
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    “Speed humps”

    and I think speed bumps are way more jarring. Ive taken the speed humps at 35mph+ no prob. Smooth as butter
     
  2. Jan 26, 2020 at 6:49 PM
    #3782
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    I can pick up almost a second a lap just by changing the compression dampers on my car. It's surprising how much they can change the handling. I do wish I had rebound damping on them too though.

    Does anyone know whether the clickers on the ADS shocks are only for compression, or if they are a combined compression and damping knob?
     
    SpeySquatch[QUOTED] likes this.
  3. Jan 26, 2020 at 6:50 PM
    #3783
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    No worries, Just wanted to make sure I was on the same page.

    Edit: That's the scenario that I was talking about the internal springs keeping the wheel from planting itself on the back side of the bump. Your truck momentum is going up and then the suspension has to drop to full droop to maintain road contact. It's jarring to hit the end of travel suddenly but that is the best you can do with a given amount of down travel, and with limit straps you don't hurt anything. With internal springs the time that your wheels are in the air on the backside should be increased, but it will feel smoother to you while giving you less road contact and steering ability. It really comes into play when there is a hump going into a high speed bend. How long do you have to wait till the tires do what your steering wheel is telling them to do? Is a smoother ride and saving a couple hundred on limiting straps worth 1/10th of a second longer and 5 feet farther before you can start to turn?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
    tacomarin[QUOTED] likes this.
  4. Jan 26, 2020 at 7:21 PM
    #3784
    tacomarin

    tacomarin ig: @travelswithchubbs

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    Yeah there's definitely a balance. I'm sure on the race trucks they dial in the high and low speed compressions and rebounds. For stock replacements they dial it in for the most comfort. On the clickers, I think that they do a similar thing the Kings clickers do: https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/how-king-compression-adjusters-work/. Sort of generally firms up the HSC, LSC, and maybe the HSR and LSR too but I think those might be unaffected.
     
  5. Jan 26, 2020 at 7:43 PM
    #3785
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    That's perfectly fair.

    On the other hand:
    I'm willing to say that I think ADS Tyler was either lying to me or ignorant to the specs of what he sells.

    I hope it's the latter, but that just means he will tell you whatever you want to hear to get a sale without understanding the question. I think I have a good understanding of the situation. Why this hasn't been a common theme in this thread, I don't know. If I am proven wrong, then I'll apologize and delete or edit any posts with misinformation and eat a whole murder of crows. I'll post his/their response when I talk to them tomorrow.

    My only unsubstantiated assumption is that a extended/mid travel suspension is somewhere between stock travel and long travel. It's possible that by extended travel they actually mean less than stock travel. Sadly, that seems like it might be a possibility.

    I keep seeing an inch or two more wheel travel than stock mentioned for a mid travel setup, that would be .5 to 1" over the 5.07" of travel that a stock shock has. Not the 1/8" max that has been measured here over the 4.5" standard length in their catalog.
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2nd-gen-tacoma-shock-info-compilation.232447/ 22.17-17.1"
    I assume that a company that claims to have $ for an R&D budget would extend their shock travel to the safe working angle (or compression/extension limit of the CV's) of the cv joints or inner/outer tie rod end angles whichever comes first.

    Is there a reason that the stock suspension is too long of a travel for the suspension geometry from the factory? Mine seems to work fine, and I use all of it. Aside from the drivers side needle bearing on the front diff being shot.

    If it's a tie rod limitation: I did read here that the inner tie rod end is the actual limiting factor for our suspension. I'd expect that someone would make a higher angle capable tie rod end to fix that for $100, or make a spacer to add to the steering knuckle to flatten out the angles. The only limitation that I keep coming across is that the ball joint in the upper a arm is the first binding point at more than stock droop. Which makes sense if you lift your truck 2-3in and then apply the stock amount of down travel.

    I find it interesting that based on the ADS line sheet: Having remote reservoirs or not is the determining factor to needing aftermarket UCA's.

    These have the same mounting points as a stock strut, therefore it's an apples to apples comparison. Shock travel length is the only pertinent measurement to wheel travel in this situation. Everything changes when you swap to a longer LCA.

    You don't even need to understand suspension geometry, if the front shock moves more then the wheel moves more.
    Additional camber and toe changes due to suspension geometry, if toe even applies in this scenario don't need to be factored in at all.
    From a quick glance you should get toe out and negative camber from extra droop.

    Tyler, whom I know as the sales guy from ADS clearly told me, after I told him that I DO NOT WANT A STANDARD TRAVEL COILOVER, that "they don't even offer a standard travel coilover. The standard travel listing on their website for front struts is actually their extended travel coilover." He even went and changed the text on the website because I complained to him that it was too ambiguous. If you click on the bolt on standard and long travel coilovers for a 2nd gen you can see for yourself (link below). I originally ordered long travel bolt in coilovers from them with a note on the order that I actually wanted the, not listed on their site, extended travel front setup with an inch or two more wheel travel than stock. I definitely did not want a stock travel front strut for $2100 and certainly didn't want less travel than stock.

    https://arizonadesertshocks.com/product/05-16-toyota-tacoma-bolt-in-shocks/
    He added:
    "For use with factory length control arms known as extended travel or mid travel" to the front strut listing on their website.
    also ""2.5″ Long Travel coil over with remote Clicker resi designed around the MCM Fabrication LT kit Fitment on other kits may be possible."


    Meh, I chose this route because I didn't want to spend days on here researching every little aspect and just go right to the experts for a longer travel and better than stock setup that I could slap on the truck in a weekend and be done with it. /rant till I update after a call to ADS tomorrow. Might have a new set of coilovers for sale tomorrow.

    Please pick my arguments apart and tell me why I'm wrong.
     
    Heavily Meditated likes this.
  6. Jan 26, 2020 at 8:19 PM
    #3786
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    When I bought my front shocks directly from ADS there was a standard length and extended length (+ 1/2”) ..not sure if that is so now
     
  7. Jan 26, 2020 at 8:32 PM
    #3787
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    Definitely save that rant for posterity.

    I just bought direct from ADS too. Tyler told me they don't make a standard travel length. In the same breath he said the standard travel length on the website is the extended travel.

    The thing is that +1/2" just gets you to stock length.

    I was reading back through the posts and you said that extended travel added 1"-2" to the standard shock length earlier. Was that a typo?
     
    SpeySquatch[QUOTED] likes this.
  8. Jan 26, 2020 at 8:40 PM
    #3788
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    What? Yes, send me link to post please...typing on the phone with autocorrect is a nightmare
     
  9. Jan 26, 2020 at 8:46 PM
    #3789
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.

    This one
     
    SpeySquatch[QUOTED] likes this.
  10. Jan 26, 2020 at 8:57 PM
    #3790
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    Thanks.

    Damn autocorrect
     
    tacoma oh7[QUOTED] likes this.
  11. Jan 27, 2020 at 4:29 PM
    #3791
    RCRcer

    RCRcer Well-Known Member

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  12. Jan 27, 2020 at 4:35 PM
    #3792
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    No, have been busy today.
    Will have to call tomorrow.
     
  13. Jan 27, 2020 at 8:58 PM
    #3793
    ThePlumber

    ThePlumber Well-Known Member

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    I just received my rears to go with the fronts. So I will be posting soon after I get them in.
     
  14. Jan 28, 2020 at 8:13 AM
    #3794
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    I think to reduce the whole stroke/length misunderstanding on extended shocks it may be good for someone to post a stock OR front Shock next to an ADS extended travel coilover side by side. This may show a variance in length, which should technically mean variance in stroke...right?

    @tacoma oh7
     
  15. Jan 28, 2020 at 6:14 PM
    #3795
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    Talked to Tyler on the phone. Karl was out the shop for a race. I don't think he's a lying "used car" salesman. He just seems to be a bit unsure about what he sells and doesn't have good documentation on his end to give good answers.

    He initially told me that their stock travel shocks are 4.25" of travel with the long travel being 3/16" or 3/8" longer. Later in the conversation that turned into 4.5" standard length and 1/8" longer extended. But maybe they are 4.4375 and 4.625, 3/16 longer. The 2.5" coilovers without external reservoirs are probably shorter than the ones that have external reservoirs. UGH

    He said that the lengths on the line sheet are wrong. Thinks someone just copied some numbers into it to fill it out.

    Their extended travel coilover is either .125, .1875, or .375 inches longer than their standard travel coilover. Most likely 4.5" standard and 4.625" of travel for extended travel. They should slam the threaded cap on the bottom of the shock body, metal to metal, into the bottom spring perch at full compression without a limit internally. Extended travel should have more travel than a stock toyota/bilstein shock.

    He doesn't know why a stock shock would have more travel than both of their lengths. Possibly due to them never measuring the TRD OR suspension. He did point out that you can swap a stock Tundra shock for a Tacoma shock and get more travel on a first gen. Wants measurements when I swap.

    He says the standard travel part number on the box and the same part number on the invoice they sent me are both wrong. I forgot to ask what the correct part number for extended travel is. There are no part numbers on the coilovers. The part # on the top of the tophat is just a part number for that part only.

    I got the version with the rebound damping spring in it. It is a 200lb spring that activates for the last inch of travel. External reservoirs with a 45 degree fitting, instead of a 90, on them have it. Everything they have sent out since Oct 2019 has them. That allowed them to reduce the rebound damping and get the wheel down quicker on the backside of a bump than without it. It still seems like having a limit strap and no internal spring would work best.

    He says the clickers mainly control compression damping, they control rebound damping to a small degree.
    The one clicker that I had to manhandle to get it to turn isn't defective, it has too much grease in it and should leak out after a while. The other one turns freely with 2 fingers.


    4.50" or 4.25" ADS standard travel Probably mostly 4.5"
    4.54" Fox standard travel
    5.07" Bilstein/Toyota stock travel
    ????" King standard travel-can't find a number

    4.625" ADS extended travel
    4.89" Fox extended travel
    ????" King extended travel-can't find a number

    Multiply these #'s by 2.1 to get wheel travel

    So, I'm almost as confused as when I started this.

    I'm starting to think that putting a 6-8" travel coilover on and using the bumpstop and a limit strap to keep the tie rods happy is the real solution to getting an actual mid travel setup using stock LCA's.


    EDIT: I received this unsolicited from Tyler a few days after I talked to him:

    "These are the corrected dimensions:

    250-T4F23-000 Coilover Front 2.500" '05-'15 Toyota Tacoma Front/ '03+ 4Runner/ Coil-Over (Requires Supplemental kit) 4.375 17.750 22.125

    250-T4006-000 Coilover Front 2.500" '05+ 4runner 4x4 Front Shock With Remote Reservoir (Requires Supplemental kit) 4.625 17.750 22.375

    250-T4006-A00 Coilover Front 2.500" '05+ 4Runner 4x4 Front Shock With Clicker Reservoir (Requires Supplemental kit) 4.625 17.750 22.375 "

    Seems to be, at minimum, a decent guy. Probably more than that. I'm just too jaded from dealing with sales/support people (in general) that can only recite the FAQ's that I've already read on their website. I shouldn't have immediately lumped him in with the atrocious support that most companies have. Sorry Tyler and ADS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  16. Jan 28, 2020 at 7:06 PM
    #3796
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    Not sure if true “mid-travel” will make that much difference, but at this point shock quality should be part of your equation. I still think setting a stock OR shock and an ADS shock side by side is needed to verify. I can’t speak for the fronts, but the rears are definitely longer because I did it next to an OME rear shock and the OME was longer than the billy stock rear.

    667D4E19-FF35-4839-964A-3698492F9ECB.jpg


    All good man, either way you shouldn’t have to worry about top-out unless you are lifting over 2” or so
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
    JKU3000 and ChadsPride like this.
  17. Jan 28, 2020 at 9:30 PM
    #3797
    tacoma oh7

    tacoma oh7 Well-Known Member

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    Loosened the nut behind the wheel. ADS mid travel.
    I'll be doing that and taking all the measurements this weekend.

    I think to get an accurate measurement, I'll pop the spring off the stock setup then bolt the shock back on the truck and jack it up till it's squished into the bump stop. Don't think I'll be able to fully compress it safely with just a jack under the a arm.

    All I have found on here is speculation of about 8" of stock front wheel travel. Can't find a thread where someone actually measured. Some say up to 10", who knows till it's actually measured.

    Shock quality was high on my list, I ordered ADS. As I said earlier, a 3" stroke ADS shock would probably out perform a stock one with 5". I don't think they would do that vs a 5" travel FOX or King though.

    With an inch and a half of lift, I'll definitely top out every time one front wheel is on a rock, going at a 45 through a ditch or catching air. That's why I'm concerned about down travel and wanted as much as I can get. Every body panel on my truck is dented or scratched from sliding into trees or pushing through brush. This thing gets used and abused.

    This sentence? The 2.5" coilovers without external reservoirs are probably shorter than the ones that have external reservoirs. UGH

    I'm not sure what you're getting at. That sentence is what Tyler said. Most measurements I was told had a maybe, about, or should be prefacing them. Or were just changed during the call. The UGH was in reference to that whole paragraph.
     
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  18. Jan 28, 2020 at 10:39 PM
    #3798
    hoarder23

    hoarder23 Truck fell over

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    At some point you need to recognize the limits of your platform. At the end of the day you're talking about an IFS midsize termite truck, if you want bigger travel numbers for your use and abuse, maybe a buggy is in your future.

    With the Tacoma your up travel is limited by the wheel well, mine has made contact more than once after blowing through my bumps on a big hit. Your UCAs will limit your down travel when they hit the coils if you disconnect tie rods and CV. If you keep the stock geometry with a mid-travel
    you will have many of the same measurements of a stock setup but with higher quality rebuildable components. If you want more performance you will need to change your suspensions geometry somehow.
     
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  19. Jan 28, 2020 at 11:09 PM
    #3799
    SpeySquatch

    SpeySquatch Function over Form

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    Lol, you actually wrote that sentence right but my tired brain purposely read it wrong. Took me 3x. All good.
     
  20. Feb 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM
    #3800
    ferntr33

    ferntr33 Well-Known Member

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    Just installed my front resi’s. Props to everyone who doesn’t scratch the hell out of the res while trying to get the hose clamps around them. Mine touch the top of the fender/wheelwell. Also it seems the res rattles a little from the top since there isn’t anything supporting the weight all the way up top where the bracket tapers towards the tip. Cant show any pics cause it’s at the dealership. 5 of 6 studs sheared after my lugs vibrated off on the freeway.
    Make sure your torque wrench is calibrated and you recheck bolts after first 50 miles. Mine fell off under 100.

    But does anyone else have squeaks coming from reservoir mounts?
     
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