Alignment and steering wheel

Yeah unfortunately I don’t have any special shops around me. I tried explaining everything to them and they got me good numbers, but then this steering wheel thing. I go back tomorrow for them to straighten the wheel

 

For future stuff do you have an off-roading group near you? It can be a Jeep club. They normally know where the good shops are since most of the really good ones are not chain or big. They are mom and pop kinda shops.

 

I don’t unfortunately. I know a guy in mass but it’s like 2 hours away. Oh well. I’ll go to him next time.

 

Oh and for the icing on the cake, discovered a nice little gouge in my new F5 wheel. Would any of the alignment tools have done this? I already made them aware so tomorrow is straightening the wheel and discussing this gouge on my less than one day old wheel.

 

Maxed out toe?! What a complete and utter joke. There really is no such thing. When I used to fix alignment machines, I usually had to train the techs too. It's amazing how the concept of the angles evades certain guys' mentality. Had the same issue with AC machines and balancers ( I've worked for Snap On and Hunter)

Oh and unfortunately, once you start telling them what might be the issue, you'll sound like a know it all to them. Just try to emphasize that you want a straight wheel and feel it's apart of a good alignment and according to the manufacturer of the UCAs there should be no "maxing" out of the toe.

I suggest you get under the truck now and look at the tie rod ends. There should be a fairly close to equal amount of threads showing on both sides. If one side has almost none then the other side "has" to be compensating for that or you wouldn't have equal toe and you would be pulling to a side.
If there is a lot of threads on both sides showing then you've been lied to.

Key things I've seen techs do wrong:

1. When adjusting toe, they go back and forth between the 2 tie rod end adjustments. You can do this if toe is WAY out of whack but usually it's not and once you get it close it's a good idea to perform another caster sweep. What you want to do is get your readings and adjust one side at a time. Keep in mind what the opposite side readings are and if it changes while adjusting the side you are working on, bump the tire in the front or back to get the toe reading back to where it was originally. Once you have one side done, lock the nut and do the same to the other side.

2. Not only do you have to lock the steering wheel, but I also like to lock the brakes. This should lock the front wheels to the turnplates. You don't want the wheels to roll at all as that will change your toe reading too. Start the vehicle to do this. And don't forget to leave the steering wheel unlocked, seen that more than a few times.

3. The turnplates need to be in good condition. They should freely turn and move in and out with camber and caster changes.

There's other things like rack condition and machine accuracy and even proper positioning of the clamps on the wheels. But the newer alignment machines are so forgiving and usually tell you what to do that bringing up certain things is just common sense.

 

Yes. For a modern alignment (some smaller shops still does it old school like those mom and pop shops I told you about so they don't use this machine), they do attach something to your wheel. My firestone near me doesn't even want to touch my truck when it comes to alignment for fear of it messing up.

 

Geez these guys. SMH. Yes, some clamps have little fingers on them that clamp to the wheel. Really, should only use them for steel wheels though. 15 years ago you removed the fingers and there was just a circular rubber piece. Each wheel clamp had 3. You mounted them to the inside of the wheel and turned a knob to "spread" them apart. Had to make sure they went on evenly though. I believe the newer Hunter clamps can mount to the tires now.

 

meanwhile i'm over here rebuilding my front end for the 3rd time to go from 4 to 5deg caster because 4 just ain't doing it for me. different strokes.

 

Thanks guys. So in a nutshell tell them to make sure the tie rod ends are equal and that should center the steering wheel? And any ideas on compensation or what I should request for the wheel ding? Technically I have no proof they did it but I did call and complain 2 hours after I left.

 

Yeah I guess since all that caster is out of Toyota spec, is it bad? Or do the aftermarket UCAs compensate?

 

This is exactly it. I fixed myself on my previous truck. Same turns in opposite directions on each tie rod till it is straight.

 

So in Firestone tech terms... make sure the adjustments on each tie rod are equal and that will center the wheel?

 

That'll get it close enough that you won't notice on daily driving with road crown effects.

Another way is to center the wheel first and clamp it, then adjust the tie rods until the toe is zeroed on each wheel. This should be a real-time measurement on most alignment machines.

 

While we’re on this thread, could someone who knows more about alignment than me, please chime in? I’m totally fine with the way it drives. It’s just like it was stock, and rock solid on the highway. The tech did tell me, my back end was a little off, and I may dog track a little. I thought I put everything back together straight when I installed the Dakar’s. I can’t tell by reading the results which side needs to be moved in which direction.

 

If it drives fine, leave it alone.

What's the toe base used to convert the inch measurement to degrees on the rear toe? If it's the diameter of the wheel (16"), then 1/32"/ 16"/π*180 = 0.11 deg. If it's the diameter of the tire (31"), then 1/32"/ 31"/π*180 = 0.06 deg. Neither adds up to 0.53 deg.

 

That's thrust angle not toe

 

Thrust angle is just the difference between the LH rear and RH rear toe readings. The alignment sheet has it as 1/32", which doesn't intuitively convert to 0.53 deg.

 

It is the thrust angle. Look at the printout. Thrust angle doesn't just look at the rear axle, it looks at the front axle too as well as the wheelbase, all of which the machine can see

1/32 is the total toe of the rear axle, which is the LH and RH toe added together

 

Ya got me, man. The tech tried to explain it, but didn’t do a very good job. I thought I had a pretty good handle on it, until I saw this.

 

So should I get this rectified, or run with it?