Another Clutch Question.

I'm having my 09 looked at, seems the clutch is starting to go
already. I'll find out more later this week.

I searched but couldn't find anything on this...
so my question is what are the better clutch kits
for the 2.7, 5spd, 4x4?

I know not the LUK, but is Daikin decent?...
or are most of you doing Aisin/Seco?...or others?

I don't do any real heavy towing or serious off roading,
just some farm roads and general yard work stuff.

Thanks for any help.

PC

 

There are two current TSB's for the clutches. T-SB-0066-11 "clutch slips", and T-SB-0103-11 "clutch chatters". BOTH are valid and target different symptoms.

Yours is worn out, so the TSB's don't apply directly, however, the replacement parts in those TSB's can be a useful indicator for you.

The "clutch slips" TSB indicates replacement pressure plate AISIN CTX-107.
The "clutch chatters" TSB indicates replacement pressure plate AISIN CTX-106.
Both indicate replacement friction disk AISIN DTX-189. Previous friction disk was AISIN DTX-137. BOTH indicate strictly to replace any/all LUK parts with AISIN.

Basically, the CTX-107 should be considered a "heavy duty" pressure plate. It exerts a greater clamping force than the CTX-106, but you might be able to feel it when pressing on the clutch. The CTX-107 grips HARD. I've noticed that a lot of "performance" shops have been selling CTX-107's for 2TR-FE Tacoma for a while -- long before the TSB for it came out.

My guess is that Toyota is trying to TSB vehicles in a way that they best suit the individual owner, so pick the pressure plate accordingly.

The OEM part numbers are:

31210-26172 for AISIN CTX-106
31210-35291 for AISIN CTX-107
31250-60500 for AISIN DTX-189

 

Thank you Shemp.

Good information here sir.

I have a 1st gear slip when on an incline
and an occasional weird thing in 4th gear at steady speed
(about 50mph) on flat road.
It feels like a momentary loss of momentum but no rpm blip.

Someone here had a topic on the 4th gear thing, but not
sure my issue is the same as that person?

The shop is going to call me tomorrow on it so we'll see
what is up.

Thanks again for the Aisin PN's.
PC

 

You're welcome.

That definitely sounds like a worn disk and adequate pressure plate. The 4th gear issue is from a good disk and weak pressure plate. When they took mine out for the 4th gear slip, they reported it as weak pressure plate and told me that the disk itself was almost like new -- no significant wear.

 

Thanks again Shemp.

A little twist with this issue. My shop said they didn't think
the clutch was slipping but did say that
when the transmission is in neutral with clutch out there is a
slight noise....When he pushes the clutch in the noise goes away.

The mechanic said there is a T-SB on this.

Anybody hear of this issue? Is this also something with the Pressure Plate?

PC

 

That would be the clutch chatter TSB I mentioned previously. T-SB-0103-11.
This has nothing to do with the pressure plate, but rather the disk itself.

If you look at a clutch disk, there are some springs on them that isolate the hub from the friction disk. If those springs loosen up, it can start to chatter back and forth. The reason it happens with the clutch engaged is because of the extra mass added opposite the springs from the hub. The rotation of the engine is not perfectly smooth, it speeds up when a cylinder goes into a combustion cycle, and slows down when a cylinder goes into a compression cycle, so it tends to repeatedly push and drag, so any significant mass attached to it will tend to cycle back and forth according to the compression/combustion cycles of the engine.

This upgrade involves replacing the existing disk (either some LUK junk or a DTX-137) with a DTX-189, and if its LUK in there, the pressure plate with a CTX-106.

Note that if there is an AISIN in there right now, the TSB does NOT specify pressure plate replacement, however, I sure wouldn't be replacing the disk without installing a new pressure plate and throwout bearing, and having the flywheel either resurfaced or replaced.

It is often very difficult for the shop to detect a slipping clutch. The driver is probably unfamiliar with your vehicle, and possibly unfamiliar with manual transmissions in general. Clutch slipping can feel the same as a torque converter unlocking on an automatic.

If the engine speeds up without a corresponding, PROPORTIONAL increase in vehicle speed, something is slipping. If the vehicle slows down and the engine does not, something is slipping.

The only things that CAN slip, are the clutch, and the tires. Nothing else on the vehicle can slip without an accompanying LOUD GRINDING.

Also be aware that the noise might NOT be related to the TSB. It is also possible for a throwout bearing to make noise consistent with your description.


What is the mileage on your truck, and what kind of previous experience do you have with operating manual transmissions? Have you taught anyone to drive manual with this vehicle? Has anyone driven it who wasn't completely proficient?

 

Ok, got it.

My guy is a Ex Toyota Tech, has his own shop now, knows his stuff.

Only i have driven it from new with 6 or 8 miles on it when i bought it.
All my previous vehicles were/are manual, no automatics for me since 1984.
So not the operator.

It just turned over 16,000 miles.

No towing, no major hauling, just some light farm work, general yard stuff like i said.

I drive it like grandpa.

Thanks man.

 

16 thousand miles on an '09. Wow, you sure don't drive much. My '11 has twice that. That definitely is not worn out yet.

If that clutch is slipping, then BOTH of the TSB's may apply to you.

My observation from the clutch slipping TSB: if you give it really good and heat it up when it slips, then it stops slipping for a while. This can mask the symptom for a little while, which unfortunately ALWAYS corresponds to dealer testing.

Slipping clutch problem seems typically to hit between 15 and 25 thousand kilometers (9375 to 15625 miles). Yours is pretty close, but your description of your use would account for being a little higher than most.

I'm going to predict that you've got a LUK clutch in there.

Your drivetrain warranty is 5 years, 60,000 miles.

Pick the pressure plate you prefer, and get them to apply the TSB that gives you that pressure plate.

Heavy duty pressure plate for slipping clutch T-SB-0066-11.
Standard duty pressure plate for chattering clutch T-SB-0106-11.

You should NOT be footing this bill.

 

haha...i know man, kinda sad that this is happening so soon...
I have an 85 Nissan D21 with +250k on it. Still has the original
clutch. I've only replaced the Master and Slave cylinders
and the heater core on it.

yea, that's what i'm dreading is the dealership experience...
I've talked with the service manager there about another T-SB
and he's a bit of a prickly pear anyway...
but i'll give them a call and see if i can schedule an appt. for them to
have a look.

I'd rather give my guy some money instead of the dealer...but
if it is covered with the 5y/60k then can't hurt to ask.

Thanks again for all the information, i really appreciate your help.

Best to you.

PC

btw, i've just searched for these T-SB's...these were not in the 05+ T-SB sticky thread.
Any ideas on how to get them?

 

I haven't seen any scans of printed copies of them, just transcriptions. A google search should yield a couple of links to tacomahq.com

 

Wow, that is a great useful summary of info shemp. Do you have any similar info about clutches for the V6 6-speed?

 

I'm not aware of any problems affecting any clutches for the 6-speed transmissions. There should be multiple revisions of the throwout bearing, as well as a very nice aftermarket solution. I believe that whatever clutch and pressure plates are listed as standard for the 6-speed should be fine.

Sorry I don't have more info about the 6-speed, haven't faced that one since I don't own one.