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Any gas chains that don't use ethanol?

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by DanGer, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. Feb 6, 2009 at 10:33 AM
    #1
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Hey just wondering if there are any major gas chains that don't use ethanol or if there is an easy way to find which stations don't. I did a project for mechanical engineering last semester on ethanol and I don't want it anywhere near my engine
     
  2. Feb 6, 2009 at 10:35 AM
    #2
    luk8272

    luk8272 Poodoo

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    The shell and BP stations here don't. You'll pay a little more for it but the mpgs are better. I believe there are 1 or 2 more that don't use it but i can't remember them. Oh yeah it will also say on the pump if ethanol is used.
     
  3. Feb 6, 2009 at 10:37 AM
    #3
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    thanks, i know it says on the pump but I can better plan my outings if I knew which stations specifically don't use ethanol. thanks a lot luk i'll check the ones down here
     
  4. Feb 10, 2009 at 3:52 AM
    #4
    T@co_Pr3runn3r

    T@co_Pr3runn3r XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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    Ours isn't a brand thing here. Big metro counties + every county surrounding them does the 10% crap. If you go 2 counties away none of them do it & actually last time I traveled through those counties the gas was cheaper by 20-30 cents a gallon. It shouldn't cost more because they're leaving out a component that has it's own supply/demand issues on top of those that gas/oil have.
     
  5. Feb 10, 2009 at 6:40 AM
    #5
    Roland

    Roland My other ride has sails

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    Federal law requires that gasoline has to have 10% ethanol. It's added by the distributor. If there were a (legal) way to get gasoline without the ethanol the marine industry would be supplying it (Ethanol wreaks havoc with older marine engines.)
     
  6. Feb 10, 2009 at 6:55 AM
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    luk8272

    luk8272 Poodoo

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    I didn't realize it was a federal law. Were breaking the law here. I don't use ethanol unless I have no other choice.
     
  7. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:01 AM
    #7
    HighPlains

    HighPlains Well-Known Member

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    Why exactly is that?
     
  8. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:03 AM
    #8
    luk8272

    luk8272 Poodoo

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    Along with whatever he found, ethanol gives you less fuel economy. 2-3mpg less on average for my truck.
     
  9. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:11 AM
    #9
    HighPlains

    HighPlains Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that to be a location issue i.e. metro area, or because ethanol is included? Ethanol trades on the CBOT; CME now pretty much in lockstep with RBOB gasoline. Front contracts closed -.37 lower than RBOB yesterday (2-9-09). That spread can and does change, but typically maintains that level. The national average E-100 rack price is currently .14 under the national average retail gasoline price.
     
  10. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:13 AM
    #10
    buffalo tacoma

    buffalo tacoma Well-Known Member

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    mobil gas stations dont use ethonal here in ny area. Not sure if its down south or not. Its a difference of 50 miles a tank between the ethonal crap and mobil for me..
     
  11. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:19 AM
    #11
    luk8272

    luk8272 Poodoo

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    Keep an eye out for the more expensive stations as they are likely to be the ones without ethanol.
     
  12. Feb 10, 2009 at 7:34 AM
    #12
    HighPlains

    HighPlains Well-Known Member

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    I find this curious. I've been using E-10 for over 10 years in a variety of different vehicles. I've never been able to put my finger on any substantial difference in mileage, power, or anything else. Certainly nothing like the 15%-20% deficit that some claim.
    After all, it is not out of the ordinary for me to experience 2+ miles per gallon difference using the exact same fuel, tank to tank. I do not believe that one tank of each would return any conclusive data either way. The sample size (miles driven) would simply be too small to tell one way or the other.
     
  13. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:10 AM
    #13
    Jester243

    Jester243 mod status????

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    I for one have noticed crappy mileage and a power loss running ethonol fuel. It used to be our "winter blend" however now I think it is year round.
     
  14. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:14 AM
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    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    For my project I had to do calculations regarding the actual production of ethanol. My main issue with ethanol was that the process of converting biological matter to the E-10 took almost twice as much energy than is actually contained in the finished product. Meaning it takes about 650,000 BTU's of energy to produce five gallons of ethanol, containing about 375,000 BTU's of energy. The whole process clearly creates an energy loss; much more if you factor in the fossil fuels used by the farmers to plant, harvest, etc.

    I just think using any possible food source to create fuel is just plain stupid. If they moved ahead with sawgrass ethanol I would not have as many issues. It is a common weed, easy to grow, and the only effect it would have on food production is by taking up fields that might be used for food crops.
     
  15. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:18 AM
    #15
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    To be fair I just did some research about it to find data refuting what i found. I found some data from the US National Renewable Energy Lab basically saying it takes 1 BTU of fossil fuel energy to bring 1.3 BTU of ethanol to the pumps showing an actual net energy gain.
     
  16. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:20 AM
    #16
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    so wait, is it an actual federal law that we there has to be ethanol in our gas? I have not been able to find any stations in Virginia thus far that do not contain ethanol.
     
  17. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:21 AM
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    wiscdave

    wiscdave Lets Do It!

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    so you failed the class cause you were wrong on your paper their Dgerm?

    91+ octanes at almost every gas station are 100% gas, its the 87 and 89 that I see are 10% ethanol
     
  18. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:22 AM
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    luk8272

    luk8272 Poodoo

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    Ethanol
    I used the same station for 4weeks. I kept everything i could the same,and used data from the last 2 tanks. Drove to 220 miles of interstate with each tank and then around town. According to my calculations and my scanguage I came up with 1mpg difference on the first thank and 2mpg for the second. Not to mention before I started this test I used 2 tanks with ethanol to make certain that it would be a good test. averaged 15.8 and 16.2.
    No Ethanol.
    I primarily run this fuel. But its getting harder to find only 3 stations for me to use around here.
    On average I see high 17 to low 19 in normal driving which is more town and less interstate. However I see better mpg driving on highway (45-55)than I do on the interstate (65-70). When i stick to highway driving I get 20-22mpg.
    Note: I only use premium fuel in both cases (with and without ethanol).
     
  19. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:30 AM
    #19
    DanGer

    DanGer [OP] Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    Thanks for the octane tip, I'll have to check that out.

    No I passed fine with the project because my calculations were spot on for what I was figuring. The thing I found with the US National Renewable Energy lab didn't specify what exactly it was calculating. In my own I was just figuring the actual processing of corn into ethanol.
     
  20. Feb 10, 2009 at 8:55 AM
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    Demoncleaner

    Demoncleaner Well-Known Member

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    Heres the map of madated reformulated (basically 10% Ethanol areas). Note that many stations near the madated areas also have 10%E (easier shipment) and other areas (I'm looking at you VT) and major cities are running it voluntary.

    http://epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm

    I dont have it here, and try to avoid when going on trips to VA & NH. Keeping track over the years, in my truck I lose 1 mpg, wifes car drops 2 mpg. When gas was $4+, yes it does matter.
     
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