Arizona Prop 203

I see. Good info.

 

Probably not at first, but with the US still being their largest source of revenue for other, more premium products (coke and H), I doubt they put up much of a stink.

They last thing they would want is a shit-storm of National Guard, Border Patrol and possibly active-duty cutting off the only avenues remaining to get their product into the US. Not to mention the other profitable endeavors they run, like the Coyotes, and weapons. Better to have decreased profit than none at all.

Not trying to stir the pot again. I just have a hard time believing that the cartels would raise much fuss over losing what is probably their least profitable product.

 

Marijuna facts: from National Institues of Health

The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)

http://drugabuse.gov/infofacts/marijuana.html
How Does Marijuana Affect the Brain?

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to the brain and other organs throughout the body.
THC acts upon specific sites in the brain, called cannabinoid receptors, kicking off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the “high” that users experience when they smoke marijuana. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. The highest density of cannabinoid receptors are found in parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thoughts, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement.1
Not surprisingly, marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, impaired coordination, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory. Research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on learning and memory can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.2 As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a suboptimal intellectual level all of the time.
Research on the long-term effects of marijuana abuse indicates some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system3 and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine.4 Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.
Addictive Potential
Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite its known harmful effects upon social functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which make it difficult to quit. These withdrawal symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2–3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation.5
Marijuana and Mental Health
A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia. Some of these studies have shown age at first use to be a factor, where early use is a marker of vulnerability to later problems. However, at this time, it is not clear whether marijuana use causes mental problems, exacerbates them, or is used in attempt to self-medicate symptoms already in existence. Chronic marijuana use, especially in a very young person, may also be a marker of risk for mental illnesses, including addiction, stemming from genetic or environmental vulnerabilities, such as early exposure to stress or violence. At the present time, the strongest evidence links marijuana use and schizophrenia and/or related disorders.6 High doses of marijuana can produce an acute psychotic reaction; in addition, use of the drug may trigger the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in vulnerable individuals.
What Other Adverse Effect Does Marijuana Have on Health?

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20–100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.7 This may be due to the increased heart rate as well as effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or those with cardiac vulnerabilities.
Effects on the Lungs
Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50–70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increase the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.
Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, and a heightened risk of lung infections. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.
Effects on Daily Life
Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover.

Sources:

Actual studies done by MD's
\/\/\/\/\/
1 Herkenham M, Lynn A, Little MD, et al. Cannabinoid receptor localization in the brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 87(5):1932–1936, 1990.

2 Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, Huestis MA, Yurgelun-Todd D. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.

3 Rodríguez de Fonseca F, Carrera MRA, Navarro M, Koob GF, Weiss F. Activation of corticotropin-releasing factor in the limbic system during cannabinoid withdrawal. Science 276(5321):2050–2054, 1997.

4 Diana M, Melis M, Muntoni AL, Gessa GL. Mesolimbic dopaminergic decline after cannabinoid withdrawal. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 95(17):10269–10273, 1998.

5 Budney AJ, Vandrey RG, Hughes JR, Thostenson JD, Bursac Z. Comparison of cannabis and tobacco withdrawal: Severity and contribution to relapse. J Subst Abuse Treat, e-publication ahead of print, March 12, 2008.

6 Moore TH, Zammit S, Lingford-Hughes A, et al. Cannabis use and risk of psychotic or affective mental health outcomes: A systematic review. Lancet 370 (9584):319–328, 2007.

7 Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, Sherwood JB, Muller JE. Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana. Circulation 103(23):2805–2809, 2001.

8 Tashkin DP. Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 63(2):92–100, 2005.

9 Hashibe M, Morgenstern H, Cui Y, et al. Marijuana use and the risk of lung and upper aerodigestive tract cancers: Results of a population-based case-control study. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 15(10):1829–1834, 2006.

10 Polen MR, Sidney S, Tekawa IS, Sadler M, Friedman GD. Health care use by frequent marijuana smokers who do not smoke tobacco. West J Med 158(6):596–601, 1993.

11 Gruber AJ, Pope HG, Hudson JI, Yurgelun-Todd D. Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Med 33(8):1415–1422, 2003.

 

So paint the picture for me, we legalize it and some drug cartel tries to infiltrate AZ and force us to buy their product, is that what you are afraid of? really? CA made this move 14 years ago and still, no drug cartels setting up militant bases and forcing people to do stuff there. Again, you are adding to you reasons as you go instead of laying them all out up front. You have an opinion and your entitled to that, just doesn't seem like you are open to consideration of a different way.

Freeing up the resources used to combat marijuana which account for 75% of the budget (as cited) would enable officials to focus on what we can all agree is more of a serious substance. For hat it's worth, I think it all should be legal and looked upon as a public health issue rather than a crime.

As for the gateway, I see your point how it can be a gateway, but in a negative tone. Say i'm a teen, and after years of everyone telling me how bad and awful marijuana is and I still try it (which I would believe most teens/people still do) only to find out that its really not that bad. Don't you think I may think you're fool of hot air and become more curious about all the lies, I mean the other drugs? The reality is marijuana is a class 1 drug meaning it is rated the hardest it can be. Cocaine is a class 2 drug, rated below marijuana. Surprising right?

Also, if they have to go to a "dealer" to get something that is obviously different in nature, they could be exposed to other more dangerous drugs. Even if that thought is true ( I highly doubt drug dealers are like used car sales man, just saying) I feel it supports legalization so people don't have to be exposed to it.

 

The whole gateway thing seems like a load of crap to me, how many Americans experimented with marijuana in adolescents but never moved on to harder drugs or continued to smoke after early adulthood. Look @ the drug policies of the Netherlands, how can you say it's not successful low violence, lower incidence of drug use in all categories than US,low incidence of hard drug use, prisons aren't full of nonviolent drug offenders. They are safer than us with their legal marijuana at less cost to the government and it's citizens. Hmmm interesting.

A key aspect of Dutch drug policy is the notion of market separation. By classifying drugs according to the risks posed and then pursuing policies that serve to isolate each market, it is felt that users of soft drugs are less likely to come into contact with users of hard drugs. Thus, the theory goes, users of soft drugs are less likely to try hard drugs. Possession of small amounts of cannabis for personal use has been decriminalized in the Netherlands. The sale of cannabis is technically an offence under the Opium Act, but prosecutorial guidelines provide that proceedings will only be instituted in certain situations. An operator or owner of a coffee shop (which is not permitted to sell alcohol) will avoid prosecution if he/she meets the following criteria:

no more than 5 grams per person may be sold in any one transaction;
no hard drugs may be sold;
drugs may not be advertised;
the coffee shop must not cause any nuisance;
no drugs can be sold to minors (under age 18), nor may minors enter the premises; and
the municipality has not ordered the establishment closed.
Separating the markets by allowing people to purchase soft drugs in a setting where they are not exposed to the criminal subculture surrounding hard drugs is intended to create a social barrier that prevents people experimenting with drugs like heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine, drugs deemed an “unacceptable risk.” Decriminalization of the possession of soft drugs for personal use and the toleration of sales in controlled circumstances has not resulted in a worryingly high level of consumption among young people. The extent and nature of the use of soft drugs does not differ from the pattern in other Western countries. As for hard drugs, the number of addicts in the Netherlands is low compared with the rest of Europe and considerably lower than that in France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Spain and Switzerland. Dutch rates of drug use are lower than U.S. rates in every category.

 

As a Respiratory Therapist I would never suggest burning & inhaling anything is good for you. However I don't think many Americans realize how dangerous Alcohol can be or the real long term effects associated with its abuse, and I haven't heard anyone wishing for the good old days of prohibition.

Alcohol-Related Liver Disease

One of the long term effects of alcohol abuse and alcoholism is alcohol related liver disease. In fact, more than 2 million American people suffer from alcohol-related liver disease. Some drinkers develop alcoholic hepatitis (i.e., inflammation of the liver) as a result of long-term excessive drinking.

The symptoms of alcoholic hepatitis include the following: abdominal pain, jaundice (abnormal yellowing of the urine, skin, and the eyeballs) and fever. If the person continues drinking, alcoholic hepatitis can be fatal. If the person stops drinking, on the other hand, alcoholic hepatitis is often reversible.

Approximately 10 to 20 percent of heavy drinkers develop cirrhosis of the liver (i.e., scarring of the liver). Alcoholic cirrhosis can be fatal if the person continues to drink. Even though cirrhosis is irreversible, if the affected person stops drinking, his or her chances of survival can improve greatly.

Although some individuals eventually need a liver transplant as a last resort, many people with cirrhosis who quit drinking alcoholic beverages may receive treatment and may never require liver transplantation.

The Effects of Long Term Alcohol Abuse. People who have been drinking in a hazardous and abusive manner for long periods of time run the risk of developing serious and ongoing changes in the brain. Damage may be a result of the direct effects of alcohol on the brain or may result indirectly, from severe liver disease or from poor general health.

Alcohol-Related Heart Disease

Long-term excessive drinking increases the risk for some kinds of stroke, heart disease, and high blood pressure. In short, alcohol related heart disease is another one of the long term effects of alcohol abuse and alcoholism.

The immediate and the long term alcohol abuse effects not only have consequences for the drinker but also for those around her or him as well.

Alcohol-Related Cancer

Yet another one of the long term effects of alcohol abuse and alcoholism is alcohol related cancer. Indeed, heavy, chronic drinking increases the risk of developing certain types of cancer, especially cancer of the voice box, mouth, throat, and the esophagus. Women who drink two or more drinks per day slightly increase their risk for developing breast cancer. Excessive drinking may also increase the risk for developing cancer of the rectum and the colon.

Alcohol addiction research shows that drinking alcohol can produce noticeable memory effects after just a few drinks (that is, drinking in moderation). As the person continues to drink, moreover, so does the degree of memory problems. And if long term alcohol abuse is continued, the memory problems can worsen to a considerable extent.

Alcohol-Related Pancreatitis

The pancreas helps regulate the body's blood sugar levels by producing insulin. In addition, the pancreas is instrumental in digesting the food people eat. Long-term excessive drinking can lead to pancreatitis (i.e.. inflammation of the pancreas).

Pancreatitis is associated with excessive weight loss and extreme abdominal pain and can lead to death.

The immediate physical effects of alcohol abuse can be experienced as soon as ten minutes after drinking begins. If the consumption continues, however, the immediate alcohol effects on the body become worse and more serious, and eventually manifest themselves as long term alcohol abuse effects such as alcohol related cancer, liver disease, pancreatitis, and heart disease.
Based on the above, it can be determined that excessive drinking can often result in physical damage, can increase the risk of getting some diseases, and can make other diseases worse. The moral of the story: if you want to avoid unnecessary health problems later in life, drink in moderation or not at all.

Because alcohol and health effects can involve many organs in the body, long-term alcohol abuse puts a person at risk for developing serious health conditions and illnesses. Additional long term negative alcohol and health effects on the body include bleeding in the esophagus, nerve damage, depression, insomnia, damage to the brain, and erectile dysfunction in men.

Other Long Term Effects of Alcohol Abuse

In addition to the diseases outlined above, excessive drinking over time is also associated with the following long term effects of alcohol abuse and alcoholism:

loss of brain cells
epilepsy
nerve damage
irritated stomach lining and bleeding from stomach ulcers
Short Term and Long Term Alcohol Abuse Effects. Researchers have shown that excessive drinking may have extensive and far–reaching effects on the brain, ranging from simple slips in memory to debilitating and permanent conditions that require lifetime custodial care. On the other hand, even moderate drinking can lead to short–term impairment, as demonstrated by comprehensive research on the impact of drinking on driving.
Excessive drinking has also been linked to the following:

infertility
skin problems
obesity
muscle disease
vitamin deficiency
sexual problems
The Long Term Effects of Alcohol Abuse: Conclusion

Based on the above discussion, it can be concluded that heavy chronic drinking often results in physical damage, frequently increases the risk of getting various diseases and illnesses, and commonly makes other diseases worse.

The bottom line is this: if you want to avoid the long term effects of alcohol abuse such as unnecessary alcohol-related health problems later in life, drink in moderation or not at all.

To Masada: Many of these effects listed above are very similar to the ones you posted for marijuana. Main difference is alcohol is legal & easily accessible - I say prohibition for all we are obviously not smart enough to think for ourselves or make intelligent informed decisions.

 

Masada, I am not hear to debate that marijuana is only good. It doesn't take a genius to realize burning something and inhaling is bad for your lungs. There are many articles I could post information from that highlight the benefits of prolonged use.

But here is some facts

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

Also from that site, further down the list

Notice marijuana down there, 0

I haven't even got going on Harry J. Anslinger and the whole refer madness, using racism and fear to pursue an agenda

 

Ah yes reefer madness what a classic, I love the part where the piano player takes one hit & instantly turns psychotic. That movie was government propaganda at its worst.

 

All of these highlighted results can and are being achieved from any number of "legal" ways. Lungs can die from shit you breathed where you work, people operate at less than optimal intellectual levels for a billion reasons other than drugs, many non-drug related things cause addictions - like FOOD or gambling or sex or authority just to name a few. Betting most heart problems in this country are NOT drug related but are heredity, food and lack of exercise related instead. Betting people kill themselves for social, health & economic stress related reasons more than because they do because of drugs. People fuck up their career status over greed and economic reasons at a far greater rate than because of drugs and when they do it's usually more far reaching bad effects than if they fucked up and got fired because of using drugs......Enron for instance?



Also, if the border was actually secured where people get shot for crossing it illegally like in many many other places around the world then cartels couldn't bring their violence here just because we don't want their product anymore.

 

Like someone else, I'm pretty bord with this topic. You asked for new information and I gave it and provided a logical argument. Then you completely ignore it or tell me it's wrong and find some other site that says the opposite. I really don't think there is anything else to gain by discussing this anymore. I know where you stand and you know where I stand. I think we can respecfully disagree with each other and talk about trucks

 

Nope...fuck that! I want someone banned over this shit!!!!




j/k


So anyway.... "Tacomas are cool eh?"

 

I get bored when people assume that they're being ignored or their opinion is being negated somehow when others offer up information that grays the supposed black and white all there is to it info that was offered up to begin with. Everyone has their own opinions & experiences and a right to them. Everyone has something to add. Nothing and nobody is the end all answer for everyone or everything. There is always a different perspective on things than your own that should be considered if you expect your perspective to receive consideration from others. No reason to take that type of exchange of ideas and perspectives personal. I was not even disagreeing with what was posted & not trumping or dismissing the info that was posted, only saying the same shit happens for many other reasons than the one being discussed. IMO, posting opinions, ideas, perspectives and preferences anywhere is eventually gonna boil down to respectfully agreeing to disagree pretty often no mattter what's being discussed. It's simply a matter of being open to other ideas than your own and listening/learning from others along the way. Now if someone clearly calls you out saying you suck, are a complete moron and that's a bunch of mindless bullshit, then that's personal and then the e-peen nonsense is on...but that only leads to closed threads and regardless of who posts last, no one wins.

 

Ban...Ban....Ban....Ban....Ban..... Wait who are we Banning again?

 

How about those Packers...

 

Just for the record, my last post was more towards the OP no you. I'm sorry if it came off that I was ignoring your words. I just think we've road this ponny as far as she will go...

IDK, Scott was the one that called ban. Why not start with him?

JK JK

It's all love dude all love

 

Ah fuck it

 

How bout them pre-season games

Too bad we don't play in reg. season

 

We'll see ya in the SB.

 

And here I thought you thought yours were being ignored ,lol. It's all good, and yeah, not sure what's left that has not been brought up about this topic.


How bout all dem cheerleaders for all the teams?! I get a kick out of GB playin Minnesota these days for some reason.

 

Against. If it is going to be made legal, it should be made legal everywhere in the country, and changed at the federal level. Currently, there are federal laws making it illegal, and they should be enforced. Obama has decided that certain federal laws should not be enforced in some states, which to me is wrong. It is no secret that many of these "medicinal dispensaries" are in fact drug dealers operating under the guise of the law.

I don't know anyone that can't already get marijuana if they really need it. I am pretty sure it is readily available. If you are using it for "medicinal purposes" in the privacy of your home, does it really matter if it is legal or not.

As for taxing it, good luck. How are you going to tax something that anyone can grow in their back yard?