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Attention all Law Enforcement...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by NraFan, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM
    #1
    NraFan

    NraFan [OP] Join the NRA! Protect your freedom!

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    I have a question for all the LEO's out there in Tacoma world. I travel cross country a lot, and I am sometimes ( in my opinion ) targeted for my Cali plates. My uncle was just pulled over in Oklahoma the other day and they spent 45 minutes searching his vehicle for "drugs". Here's my question...

    If a police officer wants to search my vehicle, and I dont want him to, how is the officer going to treat me from that point on? I dont do drugs, I dont participate in illegal activities, and I have never been in trouble with the law. I have a CCW and carry a firearm, thats it. I just dont feel like I should have to be searched, and I think its my right to feel that way. I should be able to go about my business without being hasseled.

    What do you think the general reaction would be? Hostility? Anger? Acceptance? What would be the best way of expressing my feelings about being searched? Will the LEO find a reason to give me a ticket ( other than the PC he pulled me over in the first place for )?

    Finally.... is it worth the hassle? Is it just too much trouble for nothing at all? Just looking for some LEO opinion. Thanks guys!!
     
  2. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:34 PM
    #2
    EquinsuOcha

    EquinsuOcha Bourbon

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    Interesting question, and well thought out. Subscribing cause I wanna read the answers.
     
  3. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM
    #3
    Packman73

    Packman73 ^^^^ 3%er ^^^^

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    Get out of the car long hair!;)
     
  4. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM
    #4
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    legally speaking...via the 4th amendment

    the officer who has stopped you had damn well better have PC to search

    he can ask all day long...and you can refuse all day long...until he presents to you PC

    The officer CAN ask for a dog to come walk around the vehicle without your consent...and without PC...but that dog better be there within a reasonable time...if he gives you your ticket before the dog gets there...then he better have PC to detain you longer

    essentially...you have every right to refuse a search unless he presents to you PC...out of state plates are NOT PC typically...however they may be added to the totality of circumstances when finding PC

    for example

    a car with NY plates travelling I-95 in SC...vehicle is stopped for a legitimate reason (speed etc)

    passengers have no luggage and have differing stories about where they are going etc

    i-95 is a KNOWN narcotics highway

    But again...out of state plates are not sole justification for a PC search



    As far as how the officer treats you is going to vary from officer to officer...some may push the limits of the 4th amendment to try and find PC and some may just accept it and go on about their day

    thats a very gray area thats going to depend on you, your attitude, the officer, and reason for stop
     
  5. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
    #5
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    further

    besure that when you are travelling out of state that you are obeying that states CC law and that your permit has reciprocity in the state youre in

    let the officer know upfront that you do have a loaded firearm in the vehicle and produce your permit

    the officer will PROBABLY take the gun and run it to confirm that its not stolen etc...but he should return it
     
  6. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:42 PM
    #6
    Afwrestler1986

    Afwrestler1986 Well-Known Member

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    As many times as I have been pulled over I follow the same routine... Keys out of ignition and put on dash, hands ontop of the steering wheel palms up and be respectful. Thats the number one thing is respect. I have never been searched or had a vehicle search (except the random ones on base). I can't blame you for not wanting to be searched, i mean you don't break the law except for maybe speeding, but its kind of the whole "you can't profile" thing. Bottom line is you have out of state plates and it makes you a target. If you deny a search then you "have something to hide" and if you allow it you feel violated for no reason. I dunno man.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, def inform them about the gun, they don't like surprises like that.
     
  7. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM
    #7
    NetMonkey

    NetMonkey Well-Known Member

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    i know in california, if an officer asks if he can search your vehicle, you have the right to tell him no and then he cant. however, if the officer has thinks that you may be hiding drugs/weapons/whatever in your car (ie: probable cause) then he can search your vehicle without your permission.
     
  8. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM
    #8
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    thats pretty much the 4th amendment and applies to all states

    An officer can ask at any time to search your vehicle...and (at least in sc) there is case law via Supreme Court that he can pull you out of the vehicle at any time

    HOWEVER he cannot search the vehicle unless 1 of 2 things happen...he has consent or he has probable cause

    The officer MAY frisk you if he pulls you out of the car and feels you may have a weapon on him and thats for his safety only...nothing more...only a pat down of the clothing (no digging in pockets etc) to ensure that no weapons are hidden under the clothing

    (read Terry v. Ohio)
     
  9. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
    #9
    NraFan

    NraFan [OP] Join the NRA! Protect your freedom!

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    Tigerfan,

    Thanks for the reply. I am always as respecful as I can be to law enforcement. I respect everything you do and had always dreamed of being a cop. I have never been searched, or even been asked. This thing with my uncle just has me wondering. I appreciate your information and input. I always make sure my CCW is good. The last thing I would want is to lose my guns and go to jail. Thanks again for the help!!
     
  10. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:47 PM
    #10
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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  11. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:51 PM
    #11
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    Not LEO, but my uncles are cops. When stopped, do what was said above. Keep hands on the steering wheel. If at night, turn on interior light. If not raining, even roll down the windows. Make the officer feel as safe as possible. KNOW what you have in your vehicle. Even a pocket knife, know its exact location, and if/when the officer asks if weapons are in the car, tell them what and where anything that can stick/poke, or cause any damage to the officer is.
     
  12. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:52 PM
    #12
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    this is good advice
     
  13. Oct 29, 2009 at 12:56 PM
    #13
    NraFan

    NraFan [OP] Join the NRA! Protect your freedom!

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    Agreed. I always turn off the car, roll down the windows (mine are tinted) and keep my hands on the steering wheel. If told to get my registration, I always ask if I can reach into the glove box. I try to be as calm and courteous as possible.
     
  14. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:00 PM
    #14
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    Last year cops caught my friend and I drunk and high in my truck, smoking a J. They told us to get out, I cooperated, told the cop I was drunk and high, and he searched me and my truck, found nothing, and let us go. I was very cooperative and it paid off. But i've never been pulled over for a traffic violation so I wouldnt know how to prevent a cop from searching my truck.

    How to you appeal probably cause? I mean, can I take a cop to court if he searches my truck without probably cause?
     
  15. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:01 PM
    #15
    Veccster

    Veccster bass turds

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    I never thought to do some of those things (lights on, keys out and on dash, hands on wheel, etc). I guess I'm usually too nervous...or drunk :rolleyes:

    Those are the kind of respectful gestures that get you a warning instead of a ticket.
     
  16. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:04 PM
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    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    if you feel your 4th amendment rights have been violated...talk to a lawyer
     
  17. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:06 PM
    #17
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    ^ thats true, i was watching COPS the other day and they pulled over a car for "suspicious vehicle", searched it, and found cocaine. The reason he gave the driver was that he had a cracked windshield. Is that PC?
     
  18. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM
    #18
    JimBeam

    JimBeam BECAUSE INTERNETS!! Moderator

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    depends on the state and how bad its cracked
     
  19. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:11 PM
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    Incognito

    Incognito μολὼν λαβέ

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    NRA, make sure all the places you drive through don't have any laws against the CCW... Can't stress that enough! :eek:
     
  20. Oct 29, 2009 at 1:13 PM
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    msaniac

    msaniac Well-Known Member

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    Not to flood this thread with stories or anything but what tigerfan said about getting a dog. I was riding with my friend, helping him move some stuff to a new apartment. Pulled over for speeding (guilty) however he asked to search the car, there was a ton of stuff in it, it was a honda accord rear seats packed trunk packed and a few things on roof, friend who was driving said no.

    Long story short here: If they get a dog to come out, the dog just needs to know how to sit to give PC.

    LEO called for a K-9 unit and wouldn't let us leave, dog got there and smelled around the car and just sat down (sign he smelled something). Pulled EVERYTHING out of the car found nothing left us there to put the things back in and was incredible rude about it. If I had thought at the time I would have gotten his badge number, etc. however he just gave us a verbal warning for speeding and we have nothing else to go by. Also getting out of a speeding ticket is one thing but to have rights violated is 10x if not 100x worse. So basically all a dog needs to know how to do is sit.


    Ultimately I am not saying all cops are like this (I know a bunch of really good cops who I could never see doing anything like it) but there are always those who will do things like this. It all depends on how you treat them, what mood their in, and their character. And to be honest my friend might not have been the nicest (just stern about not searching his car, not offensive IMO) to the officer, it still should not have happened.

    My 2 cents and I am not LEO so I apologize for possibly jacking this thread.
     
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