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Auto LSD

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Thelt, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Sep 28, 2012 at 6:35 PM
    #21
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Was stuck the other nite, right rear 3 feet in the air, left front burried in sand. I had everything turned off. Would turning back on the TRAC have helped? It seems to take away to much revs for it to work in either sand or mud for me. 60" hi-lift jack to the rescue!!
     
  2. Sep 28, 2012 at 6:54 PM
    #22
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    4x4 here, I don't know if front and rear lockers would have gotten me out... All part of the fun. Wheeling alone at nite, got what I deserved. 2 hours digging and jacking in the rain, got out of the situation, smiled, looked at my now really dirty truck, and saw it was smiling also. sweeeet
     
  3. Sep 28, 2012 at 7:07 PM
    #23
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    IF you are a 4WD... NEVER turn off TRAC or AUTO LSD if you want the most traction... If you understand open differentials, once one tire on an axle leaves the ground or gets into slime, it will SPIN and the 'good tire' on the ground does nothing. LIMITED SLIP (no matter what form) does just that... limits the amount of slip/spin so that moving power goes to the 'good tire'.

    There is a BIG advantage to having limited slip or lockers on any off road vehicle, used off road. When you disable the system (VSC OFF MODE), you can expect to get stuck until you re-activate it... lower your tire pressure, get a push or pull!

    Lockers are the ultimate for off roading, so get the Off Road Tacoma 4WD which has the rear locker.

    A-TRAC is the next best thing and it works the front and rear tires for near-locker-like traction, without the steering disadvantage or expense of adding a front locker.

    Limited Slip (TRAC and AUTO LSD) is the next best traction aide over 4WD alone. :cool:
     
  4. Sep 28, 2012 at 7:29 PM
    #24
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Well, like I said, it takes away to much engine rpm's, and nothing happens. Deep sand and mud are probably not the best terrains to be using the factory settings to go through. Wheel speed is needed along with traction. Will have the throttle floored and the revs just fall, leaving no power to get going. I personally don't think that these electronic gadgets at their present state, help at all in bad terrain. May be next gen will be better. My impressions only.
     
  5. Sep 28, 2012 at 7:35 PM
    #25
    Monkeyboy

    Monkeyboy Well-Known Member

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    Werd. The truck is more than capable of getting you into trouble no matter what mode you use. This thing is a monster truck compared to everything else I used to wheel.


    That said, I am now sort of confused.

    I have a MT 2012 Sport with the yellow wire mod.

    I'll leave out what I thought was happening - what modes are available and how do I get to them ?
     
  6. Sep 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM
    #26
    Natidog

    Natidog Well-Known Member

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  7. Sep 28, 2012 at 7:40 PM
    #27
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Intentionally obtuse

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    Sounds like you had VSC on, which regulated engine output. David K's handy reference might've helped:
    =================================

    UP TO NINE DRIVE MODES

    1) Normal street driving: H2 TRAC ON and VSC is on.
    2) Slippery conditions, to get moving from a stuck: H2 AUTO LSD ON (VSC is off under 30 mph). Press VSC button once while moving or stopped.
    3) Spinning tires prefered: H2 VSC OFF/ TRAC OFF. Press and hold down VSC button 3+ seconds, while stopped.

    4) Loose dirt, sand, snow: H4 TRAC ON and VSC is on.
    5) Spinning tires prefered, off pavement: H4 VSC OFF/ TRAC OFF. Press and hold down VSC button 3+ seconds, while stopped.

    6) Spinning tires prefered with low gearing torque: L4 (with A-TRAC off)
    7) Steep grades, large rocks, deep mud, severe traction conditions: L4 with A-TRAC ON. Press A-TRAC button once.
    8) Spinning tires in front only: L4 with REAR DIFFERENTIAL LOCKED.
    9) L4 REAR LOCKED and A-TRAC ON. A-TRAC comes on automatically when speed drops to under 3 mph to provide front traction to get you going, again.

    =================================

    Numbers 4 & 5 sound the most promising for what you described.
     
  8. Sep 29, 2012 at 2:41 AM
    #28
    GP3

    GP3 Well-Known Member

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    What a clusterfuck.
     
  9. Sep 29, 2012 at 4:34 AM
    #29
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Right there on line 4 it says TRAC on VSC on for sand and mud. The VSC is what stops power from being sent to the wheels I think. For spinning tires prefered turn off VSC, had that off as well as TRAC. The most movement I got while stuck was using the brakes and throttle at the same time, like the TRAC system does. I guess it's just not aggresive enough for me and my expectations. It's a cluster fuck because these systems are not intuitive to use at all. For my wheeling needs, TRAC is useless. VSC is for people that don't know how to drive and can't slide a vehicle and crash and die.
     
  10. Sep 29, 2012 at 4:56 AM
    #30
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Intentionally obtuse

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    My point was that you had VSC On, which didn't allow you to manually control engine output as desired. IIRC, ATRAC takes more aggressive action than TRAC, and it may have been of more use to you. Also, if you'd had VSC Off / TRAC On, maybe you wouldn't have gotten stuck in the first place.

    Of course, even front & rear lockers can't solve all problems, and it sounds like you would've been bogged down no matter what was happening in the differentials. Maybe what you really need are tires better suited to the terrain you frequent? :notsure:

    I agree that Toyota needs to straighten out their traction and stability system controls, but a properly working ESC system can be a very useful tool. That said, be glad that Toyota allows turning it off. They haven't always allowed disabling VSC, and as time goes on, I won't be surprised if government regulations require some form of active ESC at all times.
     
  11. Sep 29, 2012 at 5:21 AM
    #31
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, what my problem was, and is, is doing stupid shit alone wheeling. Always run off road with TRAC and VSC off. Tried a line that was, well, undoable in that 100' deep sand. These sand trails are truly bottomless. I'll try VSC off, TRAC on today and see if I've been screwing up. Just need the wheel speed, can't seem to get it to rev out with TRAC in opperation. Revs go up, traction starts to fail, revs go down, VSC off TRAC on in my expirience. That's why I end up turning everything off off road.
     
  12. Sep 29, 2012 at 5:34 AM
    #32
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Intentionally obtuse

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    I assume that regardless of the stability and traction settings, you're airing down for deep sand.

    I hope you find that VSC Off / TRAC On keeps you moving just enough to avoid getting stuck. From what I've seen, momentum is key to dealing with sand, and maybe TRAC will be more effective if you aren't stopped. If it doesn't, then I guess your next steps would be tires and a front locker, neither of which are inexpensive.

    Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out. I don't think I'll be doing a lot of sand driving, but it's good to know what's working.
     
  13. Sep 29, 2012 at 5:42 AM
    #33
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    I find sand to be as treacherous to drive in as mud, big mo is the key to forward progress here. I'll bring the camera and take some pics, not of a stuck truck today, tho. Yes I do air down, I'm running 275/70r17 Silent Armors. Pics and TRAC expierience upcoming. Thank you for being patient with me not getting the TRAC thing right in my head, just used to levers and lockers.
     
  14. Sep 29, 2012 at 5:51 AM
    #34
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Intentionally obtuse

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    All this push button & rotary knob stuff is new to me, too.

    I'm trying to learn all I can before a solo truck trip next month, so any good discussion of stability and traction control catches my eye. I don't want to get stuck or look like a button punching fool in front of my friends. :)
     
  15. Sep 29, 2012 at 2:27 PM
    #35
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    First off I am wrong, TRAC is not useless, it works well. Lets see if I can get this to come up right and explain the sequence I used. The first one is 2wd, RSCA off, auto LSD, truck with lines coming off the back off. The second one is 2 seconds later shifted into 4wd, TRAC off RSCA off. The third one is 4wd RSCA off. The forth one is with what I call everything off, 4wd RSCA off, TRAC off, truck w. lines off.
    The little icon of the truck with lines, I can't turn that off and leave TRAC on in 4 hi, don't use low range much in the sand. Trying all the different settings, the best one for bonzi sand runs is everything off, just as good even better in places is just RSCA off. Traction is great, but something still cuts engine power when you need it most, like topping a hill. I can really feel the LSD effect going on hard with just RSCA off on harder surfaces, but with a foot minimum of sand beneath the tires, that traction is lost. Wheel speed is needed, momentum is key.

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  16. Sep 29, 2012 at 2:30 PM
    #36
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    RSCA is the rollover AIRBAG OFF butter!
     
  17. Sep 29, 2012 at 2:32 PM
    #37
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    On my phone..
    when I am on my PC I will examin your photos. Thanks for your post. !
     
  18. Sep 29, 2012 at 2:36 PM
    #38
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Cool, thanks
     
  19. Sep 30, 2012 at 6:19 AM
    #39
    Thelt

    Thelt [OP] Well-Known Member

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    My best guess at this for my 2012 is that traction flows like this:

    2wd default mode (VSC on) minimum traction mode meant for times when traction is not an issue.

    2wd VSC off Auto LSD on better traction that activates stronger limited slip for the rear differential. Nice for times when you need a little more traction but do not want to go to full 4wd.

    4wd TRAC off four wheel drive with open differentials on both ends

    4wd default mode (TRAC on) four wheel drive with limited slip on both differentials.

    I am not sure what happens in 4lo.
     
  20. Sep 30, 2012 at 6:28 AM
    #40
    Gearheadesw

    Gearheadesw Well-Known Member

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    Nothing happens in 4 lo, open diffs, on my sport unless I do the yellow wire mod. If I could get full power all the time with TRAC on I'd use it more.
     
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