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Balancing Advice please

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by Newlife, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Feb 10, 2014 at 12:42 PM
    #21
    Yotabilly

    Yotabilly Well-Known Member

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    That's BS. The vibes started when they installed the tires, correct? I hope you get it all worked out man.
     
  2. Feb 10, 2014 at 1:32 PM
    #22
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Well after calling firestone Corp they gave me the numbers of my last alignment. Just so I can rule that out and tell my shop what they were. My last numbers. The tech told me they were toe 0 camber 0 caster 2.4 like i had requested. The numbers on Corp side they turned in are toe 0 camber 0 caster -1.5 both sides I'm pissed. This could be causing some i think
     
  3. Feb 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM
    #23
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    And from an off roading point very bad, good way to knock the whole series of weights off. Spreading out the weight, as long as its not alot is fine. Likewise if you're using a 16 inch rim/wheel you don't want stacked weights due to very limited caliper clearance.
     
  4. Feb 10, 2014 at 8:49 PM
    #24
    dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    In this case, the stacking was far from necessary. And yes, you do have valid points there. With that said, while stacked weights are not ideal, it's also not a violation of the Geneva Convention, as was implied by another poster.


    They are absolutely wasting your time. I'm working tomorrow, and I think I can help. I'll pm you.
     
  5. Feb 11, 2014 at 9:05 AM
    #25
    Mainmoe02

    Mainmoe02 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah they are wasting your time with this "Latteral movement" BS! All this happened after the tires were put on. If the tires balance out close to zero then they are "good" but from my experience, especially on a lifted truck, if the tire isn't perfectly balanced then Your gonna feel it.

    I think you should try to get them balanced again but this time stand back there and see for yourself if they are zero'ing out. So you can drive it for now put the tires that are worse off on the rear axle and the better balanced tires on the front.

    Can you pinpoint which tire is causing the wobble?
    When this happened to me, I pulled out of the tire shop and once I got up to 50mph my front passenger side was shaking/ wobbling like crazy! So I knew it was the front passenger tire that was the issue. Sure enough when I had them rebalance they couldn't get it to zero out. At first they said "if it's off .25 then that's not going to make a difference". Well after I left the 2nd time, I turned back around because I felt the same thing. Well they couldn't get it zeroed out perfectly so they moved it to the rear. It helped do I could drive my truck atleast until I could figure get new tires.

    Since you just bought these tires a couple weeks ago then you should talk with the tire shop you bought them from. If they won't help then call the manufacturer. Hope you can get this taken care of!
     
  6. Feb 12, 2014 at 12:21 PM
    #26
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Fixed not all 4 but at first one then when I got to the shop in knox two tires are bad. Runnout is messed up on both tires that were on the drivers side. The store in Alcoa tested all 4 and found the drivers front done. The store in knox found drivers front and drivers rear both messed up. Got a new set of duratracs and will be riding smooth in about an hour. Huge shout out to dxpsman
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  7. Feb 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM
    #27
    Yotabilly

    Yotabilly Well-Known Member

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    I like my Duratracs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  8. Feb 13, 2014 at 11:10 AM
    #28
    dxpsman

    dxpsman Well-Known Member

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    Glad we were able to work something out for you!
     
  9. Mar 11, 2014 at 4:49 PM
    #29
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Ok so grabbers gone, duratracs gone. Bfg ta ko still shaking. Took it to another shop said all 4 tires are out of balance. I don't know what else to do. Brandon was a huge help but the problem is still there. I have taken it to 4 shops and they have checked everything from driveshaft to ball joints to tie rods and rack and pinion. Wheel bearing have no play in them and don't know how to check for a bent spindle. I don't want to keep taking it to discount tire those guys have been great but are running out of patience. What else am I missing. I am to the point I am going to see about trading it in for something else. I've never had this kind of issue ever.
     
  10. Mar 11, 2014 at 5:12 PM
    #30
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Discount is suggesting I got with a p rated tire instead of the lt e load tires I have tried. I just don't see this making a difference
     
  11. Mar 12, 2014 at 2:44 AM
    #31
    2TRunner

    2TRunner Don't give up here just yet

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    Didn't know you were having tire/wheel problems Adam. If you said something about it at LBL, I missed it. If you don't mind my advice, I'll throw it in here but I'll ask a few questions first.

    -The vibes started ONLY AFTER the lift/tires, correct? What lift are you running?
    -You've had 2 or 3 different sets of tires on the truck, same results?
    -You found several "bad tires", put new tires on, same problem?
    -You've had many balances and alignment checks?
    -Only at certain speeds? 50 mph+
    -What's been gathered about how your aftermarket wheels fit? They do not require hub-centric rings because they are already hub-centric to your truck?
    -What kind of lug nuts are you using?

    #1. Have you had JUST the rims checked on a tire balancer? Take the whole wheel off the rim and just put the rim on the balancer. You can watch it spin to see if its out of round or hops, you can also see if just the rim itself has a balance issue.

    #2. A bent spindle can be located on an alignment machine actually with checking what is known as the "Steering Axis Inclination". I'm not good at explaining stuff, so here's a link. It's a little bit down the page. I highly doubt you have a bent spindle however. You haven't done anything that would cause a spindle to bend, like take an incredibly hard hit, or smash into a giant pothole....

    http://www.anewtoronto.com/wheel%20alignment.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  12. Mar 12, 2014 at 6:35 AM
    #32
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I've almost literally begged them to spin just the rim and they keep saying the machine would have detected it. I've had ball joints checked, tie rods, rack, wheel bearings, everything I can think of checked. My wheels are 106.25mm and the factory hub is 106.2 so no room for a hub centric ring. I'm running the maxtrax spindle lift balance checks about 20 and each time they are out of balance and require more weight. I've had these wheels since November and ran 265/75/16 with no issue. I've had it aligned about 5 times now and still no change
     
  13. Mar 12, 2014 at 7:10 AM
    #33
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    I have been balancing tires and wheels for some 25, almost 30 years. Several things I have learned over this time.
    Against popular belief, stacking a weight will balance better than spreading it out. Why? Because the balance machine is VERY specific. At point "X" it wants say 2.5 oz of weight. It is not saying spread out 2.5 oz of weight over a 4 inch long strip. It is saying HERE put 2.5 oz of weight. Any variation in this can cause errors in balancing. Short of a bad tire, I have ALWAYS been able to get a perfect "0" balance on a wheel/tire combination. Also, I have to shake my head at those who put weight on more than one location on the same edge of the rim. Why? You are off-setting the balance. What you do is you create a secondary "imbalance" that levels things off, but STILL is not correct. If you install a weight on one edge, and it is not coming to a "0" balance, then reposition it slightly, or remove and re-balance.

    Sure stacking a weight doesn't LOOK good, and yes, you do have to take into consideration calipers, however there are several different "flat" weights that can be used. Not all flat weights are in 1/4 oz pieces. You can get them in 1/2 oz pieces as well. However tire companies don't like spending the money on additional "inventory"

    I agree that the rims need to be solo-balance inspected. I would have done that a LONG time ago if it was in my shop. A rim can be slightly warped, and you could never SEE it, but a balance machine with road force measurements can tell. We had them in every dealership I worked at when they started coming out. I can tell you with a road force machine if and WHERE a rim is bent or warped, and I can match a tire to that rim, as long as the tire is not defective. It takes a lot of experience with tires. Sears hated it when I left them, lol.

    OP, what type of lug nuts are you using? Are they tapered, or are they central? Pics? This may be a bit extreme, but I have done it before, perhaps a radial and lateral run-out gauge on a bare rim, installed on the front wheel, would be a good idea.
     
  14. Mar 12, 2014 at 7:50 AM
    #34
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    They are gorilla lugs. Conical shaped I would guess. They are not flat. They are also the same lugs that I used with the 265/75/16s and had no issue. It is at another alignment shop that specializes in lifted trucks and they are going to go through everything again.

    As far as the wheels being solo balanced I've begged discount to do it and they said their machines check for that. And about two balances ago one of the techs said there was play in the wheel so they broke it down and turned it 180 and attempted balance again. It took 8 oz of weight to balance. They won't let me in the shop area to see what is actually happening and I'm not sure if I was I would know what I am looking at.

    I think today was the low point today. I had to pull over 4 times on my way to work to check everything and make sure a wheel wasn't falling off it was so bad. And I get to work to watch it loaded up on a flatbed and taken to another shop.

    I honestly feel drained trying to chase this issue.
     
  15. Mar 12, 2014 at 3:26 PM
    #35
    2TRunner

    2TRunner Don't give up here just yet

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    It's just the steering wheel that has a horrible shimmy/shake, not the whole truck?
     
  16. Mar 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM
    #36
    nfs257

    nfs257 Well-Known Member

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  17. Mar 12, 2014 at 3:54 PM
    #37
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I mean the truck is moving as well. But there's no vibration. Or shudder.
     
  18. Mar 12, 2014 at 4:10 PM
    #38
    2TRunner

    2TRunner Don't give up here just yet

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    Mmkay.

    Start with the rims with the tires demounted as Bama and I suggested. You may also try and find a more localized independent shop (do your research beforehand obviously) but you'll tend to get a little more "caring about your vehicle" from smaller owner operated places.

    Other than that, my suggestions would be....

    - Recheck/Retighten any and all bolts that were removed/loosed during the lift install. Check the Lower control arm to frame bolts, make sure their tight. Also, with another person standing to the side of the truck, drive the truck real slow while hitting the brake on and off, have the other person watch for irregular wheel movement, like a jerking motion.

    - Inspect the steering rack bushings.

    It's just hard to think you have an actual tire problem with all the different tires you've had on the truck in this time span getting the same result.

    You don't have any brake pulsations in the pedal under normal braking by chance?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  19. Mar 12, 2014 at 6:28 PM
    #39
    Newlife

    Newlife [OP] Well-Known Member

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    None. I took it to an independent shop today. 87.00 later and no help. Still shaking. They even tried to balance the wheels and tires on the truck. No change. I'll be honest. I went to Toyota and Ford today looking at a new truck. I don't know what else to do. I have went through every bolt 3 times and cannot find any play anywhere.
     
  20. Mar 12, 2014 at 7:03 PM
    #40
    2TRunner

    2TRunner Don't give up here just yet

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    Still have your OE wheels?

    If so...are they bare rims or do they still have tires on them?

    Put the OE wheels back on (with the proper lug nuts) and take a drive, see if the problem is gone or not. Yeah, hardcore, do this and report back.

    It really does kind of help ID the source of the problem, if you put the OEs back on and it's gone, the problem is in the wheel/tire combo. If you put the OEs back on and the shake is still there, you know it's not in the tire/wheel combo and to look elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
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