1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Basic, Reliable Pistol?

Discussion in 'Guns & Hunting' started by Hotdog, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. Jul 9, 2008 at 1:31 PM
    #61
    4x4x4trd

    4x4x4trd My other ride weighs 200 tons

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Member:
    #4267
    Messages:
    1,167
    North Texas
    Vehicle:
    08 White Access Cab TRD OR, Debadged
    AFE oil free drop in, Secondary removed, tint, front D-rings, Toyota bed mat, Undercover tonneau, TRD seat covers and floor mats, Pioneer speakers, Westin Platinum bars, Fumoto oil valve, short antena, Nifty Xtreme's, TSB leaf springs, Bilstein 5100's set at .85" in the front
    Try to shoot some 38 special out of it also to see the difference in full house loads. Also I'm sure your FIL will know but the .357 mag. has got to have about the sharpest and loudest report in a revolver when it goes off. Wear good eye and hearing protection. And have a Blast.
     
  2. Jul 9, 2008 at 8:53 PM
    #62
    pittim

    pittim mittip backwards

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Member:
    #6939
    Messages:
    18,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Pennsyltucky
    Vehicle:
    Boujee Prius
    It’sa Lexus, boogie woogie woogie
    I plan on getting a pistol ASAP (so like 2 more years...) I'll probably get something in the .45 caliber...most likely a USP or Glock.
     
  3. Jul 10, 2008 at 6:56 AM
    #63
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Member:
    #1047
    Messages:
    12,619
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nate
    Greenville, SC
    Vehicle:
    07 TRD Off-Road 4x4 debadged
    De badged, 5100's, Black Toyota Baja wheels
    it will kick less than a snub nose but it will still be rough. Also, here is another problem with the .357. its a very powerful round, with a very small bullet. it can very easily go through a person. this is bad for two reasons. first of all, collateral damage is never good. you dont want to have to worry about where the bullet goes after you hit your target. secondly, if the bullet goes through, that means not all the kinetic energy is being used on the target, which is what is known as "knock down power". A .45 is much larger in diameter and moves at a much slower velocity, so it is less likely (but still can at close range) go through a body and keep traveling. this means all of that bullets energy is being exerted on the target. imagine if you were running at me, and i threw a cement brick into your chest with alot of force, thats what a larger .45 is like. it will stop you in your tracks. smaller calibers, there is more of a chance the person will keep coming. a .40 or a .45 or .44 special all are larger slower rounds than the .357 and all of them are less likely to travel through a target at close range (although all of them still can go all the way through, it is just less likely). but a .357 will always go through a body at close range, and if this gun is for self defense, it is mose likely that is you use it it's going to be at close range. i have shot all of the above mentioned calibers, and many other large and small caliber handguns, and in my opinion, the 357 mag is the hardest to control after the 1st round, which is also important to think about if there is ever a possiblity your wife will have to use it. IMO a .357 is only good for longer range targets. you're best bet is....

    revolver - .38 or .44 special (not magnum) the .38 is somewhat week but the most easily managed pistol round i think.

    automatic - glock .40 - the simplest and most reliable of auto's. fairly cheap in comparison to other autos's and teh .40is a great round. why do you think the glock .40 is the primary choice of law enforcement around the U.S.? 9mm is also good but less stoping power, comparable to the .38
     
  4. Jul 10, 2008 at 6:57 AM
    #64
    The_Hodge

    The_Hodge Volunteer Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Member:
    #1432
    Messages:
    31,644
    Gender:
    Male
    SC
    Vehicle:
    15 Lariat Sport 5.0L
    Seeing the third gen section forced me to get a Ford...
    i have a ruger superblackhawk .44 mag w/ a 10 1/2" barrel and that thing kicks like a mule!!!
     
  5. Jul 10, 2008 at 10:02 AM
    #65
    4x4x4trd

    4x4x4trd My other ride weighs 200 tons

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Member:
    #4267
    Messages:
    1,167
    North Texas
    Vehicle:
    08 White Access Cab TRD OR, Debadged
    AFE oil free drop in, Secondary removed, tint, front D-rings, Toyota bed mat, Undercover tonneau, TRD seat covers and floor mats, Pioneer speakers, Westin Platinum bars, Fumoto oil valve, short antena, Nifty Xtreme's, TSB leaf springs, Bilstein 5100's set at .85" in the front
    Remember all the bad press given the Black Talon ammo made by Winchester a few years back to the point they started calling it something else.
    The libral press didn't like the idea that a modern designed hollowpoint round from basically any caliber was going to stay in the intended target without over penetration and cause massive tramma to the victim. Meaning it did what it was supposed to do. Kill the bad guy dead quickly without hurting the good guy or child behind him. I understand the same people responsible for the BT then went to PMC and designed the improved Starfire ammo. Good stuff. Anyway as far as I know the 125 JHP is still the most proven fight stopper on paper. Many law enforcement departments, TX being one, are going to the .357 Sig which is basically a 40 S&W necked down to a .357 bore with a 125 JHP at 357 magnum velocity in a semi auto.

    Bottom line as stated all through this thread is get the best handgun you can afford, feel comfortable with, and can be accurate with, and practice as much as possible. After all 1 good hit at that bad moment beats 15 misses anyday.
     
  6. Jul 10, 2008 at 12:58 PM
    #66
    argm31i

    argm31i Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Member:
    #3061
    Messages:
    342
    Gender:
    Male
    You're right about the fact that the larger diameter a bullet is, the more stopping power it has and the less it will over-penetrate (generally).

    That said, the .357 mag. has a 96% one-shot stopping percentage (as shown in the book Street Stoppers from 1996 http://www.amazon.com/Street-Stoppers-Handgun-Stopping-Results/dp/0873648722). According to that book, at least, this was the highest percentage of one-shot stopping power. The .45 ACP was a close second at 94% with .40 S&W and 9mm behind that.

    Additionally, as for over-penetration, the smaller diameter bullets do have more of a tendency to do so. However, with a good hollow point, you should be able to control that as well.

    That's good enough for me.
     
  7. Jul 10, 2008 at 1:38 PM
    #67
    CometKat

    CometKat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Member:
    #6182
    Messages:
    435
    Carson City NV
    Vehicle:
    08 Tacoma 4X4 Regular Cab SR5
    I’ve got a Glock 19. Anybody comes in and I’ll “fill’im full o holes” with my high cap mag. You can dump a Glock in the ocean for a decade and fish it out and it will still fire. I’d say the Glock is the Tacoma of hand guns.
     
  8. Jul 10, 2008 at 1:39 PM
    #68
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Member:
    #1047
    Messages:
    12,619
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Nate
    Greenville, SC
    Vehicle:
    07 TRD Off-Road 4x4 debadged
    De badged, 5100's, Black Toyota Baja wheels
    i'm amazed the .45 lost to the .357. where did the .44 mag and special rate?
     
  9. Jul 10, 2008 at 2:27 PM
    #69
    argm31i

    argm31i Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Member:
    #3061
    Messages:
    342
    Gender:
    Male

    Don't really know. I was just quickly glancing over it in a book store, and only remember the top few. I do know that the .357 mag was the highest and then .45 ACP.

    And, again, keep in mind, this is only according to this particular book (which, albeit as scientific as I've seen, it is still written by guys who do have opinions). That said, the numbers seemed to be backed up by studies, etc.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2008 at 3:02 PM
    #70
    4x4x4trd

    4x4x4trd My other ride weighs 200 tons

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Member:
    #4267
    Messages:
    1,167
    North Texas
    Vehicle:
    08 White Access Cab TRD OR, Debadged
    AFE oil free drop in, Secondary removed, tint, front D-rings, Toyota bed mat, Undercover tonneau, TRD seat covers and floor mats, Pioneer speakers, Westin Platinum bars, Fumoto oil valve, short antena, Nifty Xtreme's, TSB leaf springs, Bilstein 5100's set at .85" in the front
    Also to be noted is the fact that the FBI spent a lot of tax payer money on tests to come up with the 10mm light round years ago. Supposedly the ultimate law enforcement round. This was a 10mm loaded with a 180 JHP bullet loaded down to a velocity of about 1200 fps.

    Because of these tests S&W got together with Winchester and the 40 S&W was born. Shorter overall length round so the 9mm pistol platform could be used saving some on R&D. End result almost the round capacity of the wonder nine's, almost the power of the 45 acp, without the over penetration on the JHP bullets of that time from the .357 mag.. The rest is history as the 40 S&W is the most popular LE round today. Today's HP ammo is so much better than ammo of that time making several calibers good choices for self defense today.
    What I find funny in all this is the original pistol developed for the 40 is now not allowed to compete in some of the pistol competitions because it's considered to heavy and an unfair advantage at soaking up recoil. :rolleyes:

    Below is one of those pistols, a S&W 4006 made to the specifications of CA's CHIPS (note the bobbed hammer).
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Jul 27, 2008 at 8:26 AM
    #71
    danusa

    danusa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2637
    Messages:
    743
    I pack a duty 1911. But Charter Arms is back with a light .44 Spec. revolver. It is not a bad choice. And dead easy to run. I own three of them.
    The SS with two #9 shot loads and 200 gr. HP`s, if you need them make great fishing companions.
     
  12. Jul 27, 2008 at 8:37 AM
    #72
    danusa

    danusa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2637
    Messages:
    743
    I remember the Miami shoot. Poor Agents were why it went bad. But thanks for the 10MM @ 1550 fps. The web is thick and does not even require a supported chamber. Unlike my .38 Super.

    Tactical Elite, 10 mm 1 of 2.jpg
     
  13. Jul 27, 2008 at 5:22 PM
    #73
    mudslingin44

    mudslingin44 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Member:
    #7966
    Messages:
    121
    west palm beach, fl
    Vehicle:
    07 tacoma double cab trd 4x4
    6 in pro comp coilover-35 in pro comp extreme mudders
    i like the glock19,accurate and durable.with nite sites its very easy to shoot.good luck on your choise
     
  14. Jul 28, 2008 at 5:52 AM
    #74
    danusa

    danusa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2637
    Messages:
    743
    Try that on a bear with teeth and claws.

    Good luck.
    The FBI 10MM load was 180 at 1250.
    The pussys could not shoot it.


     
  15. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:25 AM
    #75
    danusa

    danusa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2637
    Messages:
    743
    Here is a 10 shot shot test group from one of my 1911`s at 50 yds.
    Notice that I am not a signatory.

    .45 ACP at 50 yds.jpg
     
  16. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:28 AM
    #76
    bambooshoots

    bambooshoots Be a fountain, not a drain.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Member:
    #7645
    Messages:
    702
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kevin
    College Station, TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 Honda Accord Sport
    I did it again. Got tired of paying truck payments and gas and traded in for a 2015 Honda Accord Sport since I enjoyed my 2013 Sport so much.
    And thus, the .40S&W (Short & Weak) was born.

    The .40 is only a shortened 10mm Auto.
     
  17. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:28 AM
    #77
    bambooshoots

    bambooshoots Be a fountain, not a drain.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Member:
    #7645
    Messages:
    702
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kevin
    College Station, TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 Honda Accord Sport
    I did it again. Got tired of paying truck payments and gas and traded in for a 2015 Honda Accord Sport since I enjoyed my 2013 Sport so much.
    Also, I wouldn't worry about bears in Florida.
     
  18. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:37 AM
    #78
    danusa

    danusa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2637
    Messages:
    743
    The 10 MM Lite looks good on paper loaded up. An M9 is one of the few that will take the pressure. So you are getting a short and weak. Yet the .40 area graduates to mediam bore. And with its rebated rim fits in 9MM breach heads and frames.
     
  19. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:50 AM
    #79
    4x4x4trd

    4x4x4trd My other ride weighs 200 tons

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Member:
    #4267
    Messages:
    1,167
    North Texas
    Vehicle:
    08 White Access Cab TRD OR, Debadged
    AFE oil free drop in, Secondary removed, tint, front D-rings, Toyota bed mat, Undercover tonneau, TRD seat covers and floor mats, Pioneer speakers, Westin Platinum bars, Fumoto oil valve, short antena, Nifty Xtreme's, TSB leaf springs, Bilstein 5100's set at .85" in the front
    With a small primer pocket and stronger web. ;)
     
  20. Aug 3, 2008 at 10:52 AM
    #80
    bambooshoots

    bambooshoots Be a fountain, not a drain.

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Member:
    #7645
    Messages:
    702
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Kevin
    College Station, TX
    Vehicle:
    2015 Honda Accord Sport
    I did it again. Got tired of paying truck payments and gas and traded in for a 2015 Honda Accord Sport since I enjoyed my 2013 Sport so much.
    Come on, you can't compare a semi-custom 1911 like Wilson Combat (or Nighthawk, or Les Baer, etc etc) to a production Glock, SIG, HK, Beretta, etc.

    I mean, that's a test target; the gun was probably put in a rest and shot like that. The gun itself is mechanically accurate enough to deliver that group at that distance.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top