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Brake Upgrade: StopTech Rotors + TRD Performance Pads

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by crashnburn80, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. May 30, 2019 at 9:38 PM
    #261
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    Ok so it's official... Big break set up on its way..... 2 piece slotted aeros, 6 piston red calipers, steel lines the whole thing... Thins are about to get interesting.
     
  2. May 30, 2019 at 9:46 PM
    #262
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    :yes:
     
  3. May 30, 2019 at 11:01 PM
    #263
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    on top of that there are Volk wheels with Mts that are being put on the same time... so crazy brakes with lighter wheels... I think this should do the trick hahaha, though this thing is slow as it can be, it's those "i wish i had better brakes" moments and longer mountain drives that this upgrade might come in useful for. Besides that combo totally looking like an eye candy :bananadance:
     
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  4. Jun 3, 2019 at 10:40 AM
    #264
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    Holly shit these are insane !!! F41A4B6E-C8AD-4C6C-BAFB-F148A2E86A3E.jpgF2065181-235C-4055-A468-78B9446972E8.jpg
     
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  5. Jun 5, 2019 at 1:44 PM
    #265
    JackCrank

    JackCrank Well-Known Member

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    Bone stock for now...
  6. Jun 5, 2019 at 7:39 PM
    #266
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Ballin! When is the install and install pics?
     
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  7. Jun 5, 2019 at 7:42 PM
    #267
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    i'm running into some issues with the suspension project currently. The install was going to take place at the same time as the suspension work since it's all coming apart anyway. Not sure if i'll be able to get the shop to get me good photos of the process since I won't be around to do it myself though. Also I'm still waiting for rest of the shipping so far just one of the boxes arrived
     
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  8. Jun 7, 2019 at 1:42 PM
    #268
    MHR99

    MHR99 Member

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    Maxtrac Spindles, Bilstein 5100 shocks at .85 with Eibach Coils (1.6"), Taco lean spacer, and SPC UCAs. OME Dakar Leaf Springs with a 1 inch block, and Bilstein extended 5100s in the rear. 20x12, 2 piece Fuel Mavericks with 305/55r20 Nitto Terra Grapplers. LED Pods for fogs, 32" LED lightbar, flush mount rear bumper pods, RGB rock lights. Cluster LED Swap, 2012 climate control swap, Pioneer radio, 2 Pioneer 10 inch subwoofers.
    Does anyone know whether or not the stoptech rotors work with Maxtrac spindles?
     
  9. Jun 7, 2019 at 1:43 PM
    #269
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    If they’re the same specs as Oem clearance wise don’t see why they wouldn’t
     
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  10. Jun 8, 2019 at 8:22 AM
    #270
    Jowett

    Jowett Well-Known Member

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  11. Jun 8, 2019 at 9:23 AM
    #271
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Interesting, what vehicle is that rotor from? Cool that the rotors have superior directional veins. Increasing the diameter of the rotor but leaving stock calipers is going to cause the pads to not be at the edge of the rotor, which will cause a strong lip to form at the edge as the rotor wears and doesn’t provide stopping benefit, assuming it fits in the calipers. Also going with a rotor 4mm wider than stock on stock calipers is likely going to cause new pads to drag so they cannot release, if they can even fit which seems unlikely. As to your mount hole drilling, yes the rotor rides on the hub, but you cannot stop a vehicle with a rotor relying on the hub and being clamped in between the hub and wheel, as the rotor would just spin. The braking force is transferred through the studs to actually stop the vehicle, meaning it is critical that those rotor mount holes are structurally sound to take high shear loads. Several of those stud holes are badly compromised. Also note that more caliper pistons or larger caliper pistons does not increase clamping force, force is from the brake booster. Using a 2 piston caliper, a 2 piston caliper with larger pistons or a 4 piston caliper with the same brake booster will all have the same level of force applied to the brakes. What you gain with more pistons is a more even distribution of force across the pad area to drive better pad contact with the rotor when things get hot.

    What is your intention? You mention trying to to get a manufacture to provide these drilled for a Tacoma. The rotor is definitely better than a stock Tacoma rotor for sure, but I don’t see a manufacture providing these due to the size issues. Have you tried mounting them with calipers and new pads?

    Also FYI, StopTech offers a big brake kit with directional aero rotors for 16” wheels.
     
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  12. Jun 8, 2019 at 11:21 AM
    #272
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    I agree if you’re going to go trough the trouble anyway get the right parts on the first try. I’ve upgraded with just the slotted/drilled rotors before from oem and noticed 0 differents.
     
  13. Jun 8, 2019 at 11:43 AM
    #273
    Jowett

    Jowett Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully, the rotor and wheel are held from spinning entirely by the clamping force created by tensioning the studs and lugs. That leads to my only concern for the ugly pattern, is that unequal area under the torqued lugs will lead to bending and loosening of those particular studs and lugs, which will lead to failure. Again, ideally, we can get blanks.

    A larger piston will create more force than a smaller piston at the same pressure, no?

    The extra diameter on the rotor will simply increase the wear lip in width from the stock 2.5mm to 3.5mm... if utilizing the stock pads. The extra rotor material, while small, is added material, so our reservoir and surface area grow. With over 4 mm of radial clearance between the caliper and OD of the rotor ring, I'll say there is space available. Pads with the same backing plate, but expanded compound area, could take advantage of the slight diameter increase.

    My thread is incomplete... but the caliper, being two piece, will gain a 4 or 5 mm spacer (we could go thicker if we want beefier pads) between the two iron sections that will accommodate the extra rotor width. I wouldn't try it on an aluminum alloy caliper. If it won't step on toes, a stiffening bridge could be integrated with the spacer. The height of the rotor is the same as stock, it has an 1 mm extra on the hub face (so the wheel will bump out 1mm). The increased width of the rotor ring is completely contained on the outboard side of the ring. Thus, the spacers will move the width in the proper direction so the caliper lug mounts can remain stock. My stock wheels have 8mm between the caliper and wheel, so clearance should be adequate at 4 or 5 mm.

    Intentions might be to offer it as an upgrade, but only if we can get the blanks. Or possibly supply the info so others can have it done...
     
  14. Jun 8, 2019 at 6:48 PM
    #274
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    The clamping force is 498lbs between the rotor/wheel/hub. I'd need the coefficient of friction between the surfaces to calculate the force necessary to rotate the rotor under that load, but gut feel seems like a 5000lb+ vehicle in a panic stop from freeway speeds would exceed that level of force. But regardless if you could get blanks it would be a non-issue.

    A larger piston with the same input force will not create more pressure than a smaller one. Slave pistons in hydraulics do not multiply force. If you have a set level PSI on the input (from the brake booster) the total pressure from a larger or smaller piston will be the same, because it is controlled by the input pressure. A larger piston will actually have lower PSI at any given point on the surface as the pressure is distributed over a larger area. However, when you sum the entire area both pistons will have the same pressure output, again because they were both fed the same pressure input. The larger/more pistons distribute the pressure on the pads more evenly and the greater surface area allows heat to dissipate quicker to prevent fade.

    I see what you are thinking on the caliper, I hadn't considered the 2 piece design. Interesting idea as long as there is enough material on the slides to safely accommodate the spacers. Ultimately I think you need to mock it up to see if it works.
     
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  15. Jun 8, 2019 at 7:41 PM
    #275
    Jowett

    Jowett Well-Known Member

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    I used to think the same thing with lugs, studs, and wheels. If it were the case, we'd have many sheared off rotor locating screws (which the Taco obviously doesn't have). You also need the area of contact to calculate that... forgive I'm already tired at 47.

    That is the reverse of what I learned, larger pistons at the same psi create more force, thus they create more braking force/torque.

    IMG_2796.jpg
     
  16. Jun 8, 2019 at 7:42 PM
    #276
    Jowett

    Jowett Well-Known Member

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    Definetly mocking things up!
     
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  17. Jun 8, 2019 at 8:38 PM
    #277
    BenMara

    BenMara That Asian RedNeck

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    @Jowett wow havent seen that SN in a very long time. Tundra Solutions days and even iH8Mud
     
  18. Jun 8, 2019 at 10:36 PM
    #278
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I see where we are differing, it is effectively travel/work done. A piston 2x the size is providing 2x the force but only doing 1/2 the work for a given fixed input. Meaning that to do the same work as the smaller piston, it needs the brake brake booster to supply 2x the volume. So yes a piston 2x the size has 2x the force traveling 1/2 the distance. But it still needs to go the full distance so it requires 2x the fluid, or 2x as much work from the master cylinder or a master cylinder 2x the size.

    2x the force with 1x the distance = 1x the force with 2x the distance. Power out of any system obviously cannot be greater than the power in.

    Looking forward to seeing your mounting setup.
     
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  19. Jun 8, 2019 at 11:33 PM
    #279
    Sharpish

    Sharpish Well-Known Member

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    You couldn't find anything bigger?
     
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  20. Jun 9, 2019 at 12:29 AM
    #280
    alexplb

    alexplb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:That fits in a 16” rim? Lol don’t be hating. :cheers:
     
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