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Bright tweeters after upgrades

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by horntac1, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. Feb 23, 2020 at 12:47 PM
    #1
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    So I recently performed upgrade round two to my audio system. Since then the tweeters are bright as heck. The crossover has an attenuation switch which I have set to 0dB. Prior to the recent upgrade I had it set to +4.5dB as it needed a little more. The HU controls were all set in the middle. Since these last upgrades I've backed the mid and highs off a bit to try and tone it down. I've tried bluetooth, plugged in and USB. Source doesn't seem to make a difference. Hoping someone may have some ideas as to why the tone change after the below changes.

    First upgrades (Tweeters sounded normal to me)
    Kicker KS series front and rear with keyamp
    Last upgrade (Very bright now)
    Replaced Kicker Keyamp with Alpine PDX-V9 5 channel, AudioControl LC7i, JL Audio 10" sub in a Marv box.

    Thanks in advance!

    IMG_2091.jpg IMG_2092.jpg IMG_0724.jpg
     
  2. Feb 23, 2020 at 5:42 PM
    #2
    DVS4.0

    DVS4.0 Well-Known Member

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    If i understand your initial post, you now have kicker tweeters in the oem spot (high in the door) and the 6x9 ks series in the lower door? That just might be tweeter over kill. If the ks series are 3 ways or even 2 ways its just to many highs. Try disconnecting the single tweeter and see how that sounds before putting your door panels back on. The oem tweeters as crappy as they are work well if you have aftermarket 6x9's by bringing up just enough staging so you may go back and reconnect them if your staging drops without the kicker tweets. One other thing make sure the settings on the head unit are set to flat (0) and work your way up gradually if you even need to. Hope this helps. GL
     
  3. Feb 23, 2020 at 5:55 PM
    #3
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    The Kicker components (6.75) were installed prior to the recent upgrades. They became bright after installing the new amp/loc/sub. Here are the KS specs.

    Woofer [in, mm]
    6-¾, 165
    Tweeter [in,mm]
    1, 25
    Dome Material
    Silk
    Rated Impedance [Ω]
    4
    Peak Power Handling [Watts]
    250
    Continuous Power Handling [Watts RMS]
    125
    Sensitivity [1W, 1m]
    91
    Frequency Response [Hz]
    35-21k
    Woofer Mounting Hole Diameter [in, mm]
    5-9⁄16 , 141
    Woofer Bottom Mount Depth [in, mm]
    1-13⁄16 , 46
    Flush Mount Tweeter Hole Diameter [in,mm]
    1-¾, 45
    Flush Mount Tweeter Depth [in,mm]
    11⁄16 , 17
    High Pass [dB], at Frequency [Hz]
    12, 4,000
    Low Pass [dB], at Frequency [Hz]
    12, 4,000
    High Frequency Output Attenuation [dB]
    0, 4.5, 9
     
  4. Feb 23, 2020 at 6:43 PM
    #4
    DVS4.0

    DVS4.0 Well-Known Member

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    It must be a setting on the head unit. The amp will have very little to do with the brightness of the highs other than the volume. your right on setting them at 0db on the crossover.
     
  5. Feb 23, 2020 at 6:47 PM
    #5
    DVS4.0

    DVS4.0 Well-Known Member

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    Then work on the gains on that LOC. They seem a little high. Looks like they are set at 3/4, setting them at 1/2 or just below may help.
     
    xxTacocaTxx likes this.
  6. Feb 23, 2020 at 7:02 PM
    #6
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    My guess is, the Key was toning down the highs a lot in its auto-EQ.
    With the new amp, your only EQ’ing is the basic head unit settings.

    the new amp is also putting out a ton more wattage than the key was, so those tweeters are getting a lot more power to them
     
    horntac1 [OP] likes this.
  7. Feb 24, 2020 at 2:24 AM
    #7
    dolbytone

    dolbytone Well-Known Member

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    This isn’t going to change the balance of the spectrum going into his amplifier. Think it through before advising people to twist knobs.

    As far as the issue at hand goes, I think DM has the best explanation. I’m trying to think of a way to make what you describe happen, but with your setup, I don’t see how unless for some reason your mid bass has suddenly disappeared making the tweeters sound brighter in comparison.

    0dB on a passive crossover is normal, -XdB is usually where they end up. The + settings are only there in the event you have a very off axis mounting location.

    My only suggestion right now would be to verify the mid bass woofers are not out of phase with each other.
     
    horntac1 [OP] likes this.
  8. Feb 24, 2020 at 7:04 AM
    #8
    DVS4.0

    DVS4.0 Well-Known Member

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    Advising someone to lower gains is never a risk. So many folks think they are volume knobs and use them as such. So I see no harm in my advise. Mids being out of phase will cancel only one side but could be the culprit in this case.
     
    xxTacocaTxx and horntac1 [OP] like this.
  9. Feb 24, 2020 at 8:04 AM
    #9
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I completely forgot about the Keyamp auto-eq. That makes 100% sense as to the change. Now how to resolve it. With the current setup I don't believe I have any way to adjust for the brightness, out of phase etc.

    What would be the best/cost effective way to add adjust-ability to deal with the issue at hand?

    I start these projects thinking I'm going to keep it simple and many snowball on me. I suppose its a result of doing these projects myself (with a lot of help from this usergroup :)) versus taking it to the professionals. I don't think that will ever change as I enjoy doing them way too much!
     
  10. Feb 24, 2020 at 8:57 AM
    #10
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Well speakers being in phase just means that they are wired the same (positive to positive, negative to negative, etc)

    this can get thrown off by a number of things, like wires getting crossed at the amp or in the harnesses behind the radio, or mis-wiring at the speaker itself.

    Something cheap like this will help you determine if all speakers are in phase

    45E97005-258C-4E2E-ACD4-F5E00AF13F8B.jpg

    As for EQ, you currently only have the settings in the radio to play with.
    You could add a DSP before the amp, or swap the radio.

    Kicker is about to release a 2-channel LOC with their auto-EQ built in. It still doesn’t give you any manual control, but if you liked the sound from the Key, it may work for you.
    You could also just do a full DSP. The Rockford DSR1 is a pretty good cheap option. You can also get up into the higher end models like the AudioControl DM-608.
     
    horntac1 [OP] likes this.
  11. Feb 24, 2020 at 9:52 AM
    #11
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I will grab the above polarity tester to eliminate that as an issue.

    Would an upgraded HU such as the Kenwood DDX9905S have the same level of controls as a DSP? Cost wise I think I would just as soon replace the HU and gain the additional features on top of the controls. Actually, I think I would need the iMaestro device to maintain steering wheel control? $$$ I'm probably around $650-700 so maybe going with a cheaper DSP option like the Rockford would be the better idea.

    Also the HU replacement route would require me rejiggering my setup with respect to removing the LOC and running new cables to the back. Not the end of the world as at this point I'm pretty good at taking the interior apart.

    Sorry just thinking out loud.
     
  12. Feb 24, 2020 at 10:00 AM
    #12
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Mid-high end radios give you some pretty good tuning capabilities. Nowhere near a true DSP, but a heck of a lot better than the factory radio

    most will have a 9-13 band EQ, moderate time alignment, and then basic crossovers (just like your amp has)

    a true DSP will have something like a 30 band EQ, very good time alignment features, and high/low/band pass crossovers and levels and all that for every individual speaker
     
    horntac1 [OP] likes this.
  13. Feb 24, 2020 at 11:26 AM
    #13
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I will look into the DSP route. I do like the small footprint of the Rockford.

    Curious how does a processor adjust just the tweeter levels when its part of the same output channel at the amp then split at the component crossover?
     
  14. Feb 24, 2020 at 11:38 AM
    #14
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

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    Because it is changing the input signal going into the amp.
     
    horntac1 [OP] likes this.
  15. Feb 24, 2020 at 12:56 PM
    #15
    horntac1

    horntac1 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone for the help and advice. Now I have some direction. As always its very much appreciated.
     

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