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Catalytic Converter Removal

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by maachuu, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:01 AM
    #1
    maachuu

    maachuu [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I am about to have exhaust system replaced due to rust (already had frame replaced) and the shop says I have 2 CC in the system. They said they would take to CC's out of the exhaust if I wanted. Question is this, is the a good or bad move to do this ? I have read both pro and cons to this. Better mileage would be great for sure if that is a fact


    Thanks

    Maachuu aka Larry
     
  2. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:12 AM
    #2
    Gixerkiller

    Gixerkiller Back in the real murica TTC #0043

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    Where do you reside?

    If there is a tail pipe emissions check you would most assuredly fail.
    Cats are a good thing, don’t get sucked into the “high flow” cat nonsense. ALL cats built today are of the high flow type, back when these monsters came out and weighed like 90 lbs, they were very restrictive.
    You won’t benefit much if you remove them.
     
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  3. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:13 AM
    #3
    maachuu

    maachuu [OP] Well-Known Member

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  4. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:14 AM
    #4
    maachuu

    maachuu [OP] Well-Known Member

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    We don't have the inspection stations anymore in MS and then they didn't even check emissions

    Thanks
     
  5. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:23 AM
    #5
    koditten

    koditten Well-Known Member

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    Reserected from the dead.
    If the truck is running good, there is no reason to remove it. Do you have a CEL light lit and how long has it been on?

    It takes thousands of miles with the truck ruining in "open loop" to kill the cat(s).

    Secondly, these trucks are very desirable. People from states with emission testing can not buy it if the cats are gone.

    As for the exhaust being rusty, the complete exhaust from the cat back is only around $180 and they are easy to change in your own driveway.

    If you remove the cats, the CEL will always be lit and the truck will use more gas since the engine is always running in "open loop".

    "Open loop" is similar to running with the choke engaged on cars that had carburetors.

    I'm really surprised that your mechanic suggested removing the cats.
     
    maachuu [OP] likes this.
  6. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:37 AM
    #6
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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    i thought the sensor after the cat did nothing but tell you your cat was good or bad... its on a 1st gen sticky
     
  7. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:42 AM
    #7
    Gixerkiller

    Gixerkiller Back in the real murica TTC #0043

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    The sensor after the cat reads the same as the one upstream, it can tell you if the cat is plugged as the gases change. It does not tell you the cat is good or bad in real time, just says “hey, burn is not within spec, check it out” which is one reason you never run race fuel in a cat equipped vehicle...
     
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  8. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:45 AM
    #8
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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    the code my tacoma gave me when it saw the upstream sensor within spec and downstream sensor out of spec is, "catalytic converter malfunction"
     
  9. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:45 AM
    #9
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Retire from work, but not from life.

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    You betcha.

    Because it's illegal, even in states with no inspections. It's a Federal law, and a shop that gets caught doing this for hire can get in big trouble.

    I've seen troopers doing random roadside pull overs (of groups of vehicles, not individuals), checking tags, registrations, licenses, lighting system function and using mirrors to detect the presence of converters.

    As far as the running of your truck, it will be louder. Yet poorer performance. Unless you can fool the ECU to think the cats are there and healthy. The move from OBDI to OBDII (with the post cat O2 sensors) in '96 made the removal of cats much more complicated.
     
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  10. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:46 AM
    #10
    maachuu

    maachuu [OP] Well-Known Member

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    According to exhaust shop, I have to have all the way from manifold back sue to the rust.


    Thanks
     
  11. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:48 AM
    #11
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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    you can delete the cat run your old sensor if you can salvage it and put a capacitor and resistor between a couple wires to get rid of the cel... link will be posted shortly
     
  12. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:50 AM
    #12
    Clearwater Bill

    Clearwater Bill Retire from work, but not from life.

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    When was the frame done? If recently the exhaust should have been done as part of the process, as they'd have to have had it apart to get the motor out.
     
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  13. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:52 AM
    #13
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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  14. Jul 12, 2019 at 6:53 AM
    #14
    Gixerkiller

    Gixerkiller Back in the real murica TTC #0043

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    Yes, that is correct, does not mean the cat is bad, it is telling you look here and perform some diagnostics. The code reader is a tool to be used to locate a trouble area, it is not the Bible of repair.

    Scanning with a code reader and saying, the code says you need a MAF sensor without checking the systems or parts that surround the area and recommending a clean first is what TECHNICIANS do, a MECHANIC checks everything around and uses his head to determine the best action. Which is why I say, the cat can still be good even with a code, the wiring could be bad, the sensor, the plug, the pins in the ECU.....
     
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  15. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:01 AM
    #15
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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    i know about the code reader not telling you the problem but rather what's wrong

    in this system there are 3 possible things that can go wrong... 2 of which have codes for them

    if an o2 sensor fails: o2 sensor circuit malfunction

    if a cat is bad: catalytic converter malfunction

    same if theres a rust hole... theres no code for it since vehicles cant moniter their physical state yet

    so its pretty safe to assume if you have no exhaust leaks that the code tells you what to do for this system since its so simple and does nothing to affect the operation of the vehicle
     
  16. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:15 AM
    #16
    Gixerkiller

    Gixerkiller Back in the real murica TTC #0043

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    Maybe I’m just a different kind of wrench, I trust nothing the computer tells me. You can have a cat bad code and have a bad sensor, you can also have a good cat, good sensor, but have a melted or broken wire and the code of bad cat comes up. Until cars carry things like passenger jets do, there are gonna be variables that need to be dealt with first.

    Example, had a Nissan Juke read bad MPI for a wiper malfunction. It was not the MPI, it was the motor, which tested good both physically and live action diagnostic computer tests. There is a code for the motor, which did not hit.
     
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  17. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:18 AM
    #17
    goldentaco03

    goldentaco03 Well-Known Member

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    @Running Man The P0420 code (cat malfunction) rarely means the cats are bad. Unless your truck has 200k+ on it. I've dealt with it on like 3 separate occasions in the past 3-4 years. First time it happened I took it to my mechanic to get the code read, he said the cats were bad and needed to be replaced and it would be really expensive. I thought hmmm, truck only has 130k that can't be. That was the moment I stopped taking my car to the mechanic. The most common problem is some sort of exhaust leak, usually very small holes that are hard to find, or ones that are more obvious (see below). The first time I dealt with it I was getting P0420 cause my catback rusted off (see picture below lol). Replaced that, code went away but all the readiness monitors wouldn't run. A week later cel came back on. This time it was bad rear O2 sensor. MY POINT being that P0420 can mean a lot of things, and a lot of times the other checks won't even run until the first problem is resolved (O2 sensor was also bad but I didn't get a code for that until the leak was fixed). This makes sense because the loop for testing O2 sensor signals couldn't even run properly because the proper amount of exhaust gas was not flowing by the rear sensor. The computers on these trucks and cars in general use discrete logic and inputs to turn on the CEL. Your brain can be smarter than the ECU and with enough thinking, and understanding of the system, you can make a better judgement than the ECU. This is why mechanics get paid the big bucks, or at least the good ones...


    IMG_4691.jpg
     
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  18. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:19 AM
    #18
    Running Man

    Running Man flat faced submarine and 4 runner

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    the one time i did get it the cat was actually bad because of my leaky injectors and a coupe decades worth of miles
     
  19. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:21 AM
    #19
    goldentaco03

    goldentaco03 Well-Known Member

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    It's absolutely possible, but in the northeast at least most people just replace the cat thinking its bad from getting a P0420 which fixes the problem like 99% of the time. But in reality it is only fixing the rust and the cat wasn't bad. Could've gone with a much cheaper fix if you troubleshoot it for like an hour (check cat temperatures, look for holes, etc).
     
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  20. Jul 12, 2019 at 7:28 AM
    #20
    Gixerkiller

    Gixerkiller Back in the real murica TTC #0043

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    No we don’t, I used to get 40 per flag hour and never had to adjust my times or sit on a vehicle to make the time. Now I’m offered 18-20 per flag hour and have to work slow and adjust times if I go to fast.....which is why I’m done with it.

    Labor prices went up, mechanics pay went down. The response is “ we have hundreds of techs wanting to work here” if you don’t like it we can just get another.

    The best line from employers is, good reliable help is so hard to find......

    You mean that all the 21 yr old master mechanics from UTI can’t actually fix anything?

    Time to get another...
     

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