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COMPLETED 5th Gen 4Runner BBK upgrade for 2nd Gen Tacomas

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by nudavinci64, Aug 4, 2017.

  1. Aug 4, 2017 at 11:57 AM
    #1
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Money Pit....
    First off I want to thank my brother Mike and Perry’s Auto for letting us use the shop again and @Low Range Off-Road for putting together the parts to perform the brake swap. If you are in or around Morro Bay/San Luis Obispo hit him up for any work. Perry's is a general auto shop but Mike has some side projects he is always working on. Lately been working on a few Land Rovers for some local guys.

    THIS IS A VERY PICTURE HEAVY POST

    Overview


    I am a couple months overdue with this write up as promised to a few of you but here it is.

    This will be a walk-through and review of the 2010-Present 5th Gen 4 Runner Brake upgrade on the 2nd Gen Tacoma on my 2013 MGM Tacoma TRD Off Road with aftermarket suspension, larger tires, sliders and various recovery items in the bed.

    I was just getting to the point where I was looking into different options to help improve braking on the Tacoma. I was unhappy with the overall braking performance after many of the recent modifications when I Stumbled onto a thread by LRO discussing possible brake options and looking for someone to perform this swap.

    In the past I have upgraded front brakes with larger pistons/rotors on other cars. My last setup I swapped Audi S4 Brakes onto an A4 for a much larger Rotor setup. The 5th Gen 4Runner has larger rotors with similar 4 piston calipers that utilize a larger pistons than the stock Tacoma caliper. I figured this would be a great setup if it all worked out well. With a successful completion LRO plans to offer the setup as a low cost BBK for our Tacoma’s. You can easily sources the parts yourself or you can buy the package from LRO in one stop. They have been great to work with so far. I will update with some parts but wanted to get the overall experience and review up ASAP as I have been way behind on doing so.

    QUICK RECAP ON TESTS
    Before going into the overview of the install and brake test the swap was a success and we did see some improvement. Before performing the setup we performed some brake stops at a rolling 40mph (closer to 42 due to tire upgrade) before and after. We saw around an 8% improvement in stopping distance. I feel it could be a bit better as well. Overall pedal feel is nice and firm with an added "bite" to the front brakes. Each test will be discussed in the thread.

    Differences in the two brake setups by the numbers:

    Stock Tacoma Setup

    13WG - 2005-Present Toyota Tacoma

    Caliper Manufacture - Sumitomo | Advics
    Rotor Manufacture - Advics
    Pad Manufacture - Advics
    Caliper Size - 11-5/8" Inch
    Rotor Size - 319mm
    Rotor Thickness - 28mm
    Rotor Weight - 18.48 lbs
    Brake Pad Size -
    Piston Size - 45mm
    Wheel Size - 16" - 17"

    4Runner Setup (New Setup)

    14WA - 2010-Present 4Runner

    Caliper Manufacture - Advics
    Rotor Manufacture - Advics
    Pad Manufacture - Advics
    Caliper Size - ???
    Rotor Size - 338mm
    Rotor Thickness - 31.8mm
    Rotor Weight - 21.7 lbs
    Brake Pad Size -
    Piston Size - 48mm
    Wheel Size - 17"

    Rotors come in 19mm larger with a 2mm larger pistons per caliper.


    Our setup for the swap:

    Most brake setups include stainless lines so we went with replacing 13WG calipers with 14WA calipers with Stoptech slotted rotors, 4Runner Backing plates, LRO stainless lines F/R and I flushed the brake fluid with Original Typ200 Racing Brake Fluid (Same stuff as Super Blue but without the dye due to changes in US laws). I decided to stick with regular OEM pads instead of Ceramic or Metallic pads to gauge the improvement. Going with a more aggressive pad would most likely provide increased performance on top of the new setup.

    Parts List.
    I still need to track some stuff down but @4x4Taco09 posted some numbers after checking out the build:
    -Stop Tech Slotted rotors
    #126.44174SR
    #126.44174SL

    1st gen note:
    If you are a 1st Gen exploring other brake options @Bandido has noted that the rotor for the 5th Gen 4runner is a bit thicker. Using the rotor for the GX is a few mm thinner and works better for the 1st gen.

    Part numbers to to be added here.

    -Calipers
    #14WA - Ebay, Summit Racing, Partsgeek Should be able to score for $40-60 each or under $100 if you look.

    I used Centric brand and have not any issues. No reason to buy new ones. At that point you should just pick up a BBK.

    -4 Runner Dust shields (factory part). You can also cut off the Tacoma one but this fits in perfect. Had a buddy use it on his stoptechs too (minor trimming)
    #47781-60140
    #47782-60140
    Camelback Toyota ($90 or so)

    -Pads
    I went with stock pads for now as I wanted to see a difference if I add aftermarket pads.

    My parts came rebuilt already but in case you find some old ones some items @4x4Taco09 used to rebuild:

    -Carlson Caliper Rebuild kit (2x)
    #15392
    eBay $19.92

    -Carlson Disc Brake Hardware kit
    #13600
    RockAuto $4.15

    -Carlson Bleeder (they were bent when I got them from eBay)
    #H9411
    RockAuto $0.59 (they only sell 5 at a time, so about $2.95)

    I went cheap and grabbed some caliper paint and painted them black. G2 or other higher end paints can be used or just run them a la natural.

    Additional items:
    Stainless steel lines (used Low Range Offroad)
    ATE200 brake fluid

    rotors.jpg calipers.jpg brakelines.jpg
    Missing are the backing plates and Pads but you know what they look like. Pics of them on install day.

    Caliper Prep:

    Calipers came with dark grey color of sorts but to make sure I put a few coats of VHT caliper paint on them. I applied 4 or 5 coats which I am sure will wear off but something is better than nothing. Using a better paint such as G2 Caliper paint would have been better but the local AutoZone only had Red and my plan was to paint them black.

    When painting the calipers you can remove the pistons and dust covers or you can cover them. I did a bit of both as they were already greased and ready to go and I did not feel like servicing them again. Plus any part that did not get pain on the inside would not be seen by anyone anyway.

    Calipers already had a nice Grey color to them on delivery
    IMG_7017.jpg
    If you decide not to remove pistons or not you should cover them. I removed the dust caps but left the pistons inside as to keep them greased. Some newspaper and duct tape did the trick.
    IMG_7019.jpg
    Freshly painted black. The grey was nice but the fresh coats of black paint look fantastic and goes well with the look of my truck. I debated on going with Matte Bronze to match the SCS Ray10s but was not able to find it on short notice.
    IMG_7021.jpg IMG_7029.jpg

    I prepped the calipers a few days before install day so they had a couple days to cure fully before being installed.

    INSTALL DAY

    I was lucky to have access to a shop but this can easily be completed at home with basic tools to remove calipers, rotors, backing plates and lines. Depending on your skill level the hardest parts will be replacing brake lines, swapping backing plate and bleeding your brakes.

    I highly recommend having an impact Gun handy. A larger one and smaller one for those tight places. Mostly likely you will have some bolts that are pretty damn tight. Impact gun will make this process a breeze. In addition a set of wrenches and a rubber mallet for helping loosen the rotors.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_99.jpg

    BASELINE TEST
    First up we need to get some baselines before the install. We took the Taco out to some back roads and ran a few rolling 40mph emergency stops. We marked off a starting point and ran a few stops. It took a couple stops for the brakes to start to really grip. We ran 4 stops so that we could ensure we were hitting our mark consistently. Each stop we placed a markers using white paint for reference. Afterwards we measured the distance. First stops came in a bit high but that was due to late action and cold brakes. 70-75 feet respectively. We new this was not right. It did not feel right either. After 4 passes our last 2 passes came in at 61 and 62 feet which would become are baseline for the post install test.

    As we were making a few changes today the truck was setup on King 2.5 suspension front and rear, Dakar leaf Pack, ARE Camper shell, B.A.M.F. Sliders and various rotopax (filled) and recovery gear for this test. Not too heavy but not stock either.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_12.jpg


    Video here is of the 3rd pass which came up as the shortest pre-install run.
    61 Foot stop via stock Tacoma Brakes ~40mph Rolling Stop


    Video here is the 4th which came up right around the same. May have hit it a bit late but came up at 62.


    BRAKE SWAP

    Always good to to lay out everything you plan to install for the day. (Removed a couple other items unrelated to the brakes)

    IMG_7051.jpg


    PARTS LIST:
    TAC-B-KIT-05-2 2005-2015 Toyota Tacoma Stainless Steel Brake Line Kit - Front and Rear 4" Longer Than Stock
    Stoptech Slotted Rotors
    ATE 706202 Original TYP 200 DOT 4 Brake Fluid - 1 Liter
    Toyota OEM Backing Plates Part Number: 47781-60140 and Part Number: 47782-60140
    14WA 4Runner Calipers with OEM pads

    Quick view of my brothers project land cruiser with dual lockers and its engine torn apart, cleaned up and freshly painted. He came up nicely on this one. Finding dual factory lockers are a gold mine. He has a ton of plans for this one. Hope to see a sweet setup when he is done.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_126.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_70.jpg

    Start with removing both wheels or at least the one you will be working on first. Ideally you will want the entire truck on stands for bleeding the brakes down at the end.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_30.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_31.jpg
    Stock Tacoma Brake setup. Dirty and ready to be replaced with the 4Runner setup.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_36.jpg
    Quick shot from a distance

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_37.jpg

    As we were not 100% sure the rotors and calipers would clear we took some measurements to see how it all lined up. We want to see if they would clear with the Tacoma backing plates. As we assumed this would not be the case. The 4Runner backing plates are much larger in order to clear the extra 19mm.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_38.jpg
    Have a bungee cord or something to support the caliper after you unbolt them. Since you are going to replace the lines you could remove them entirely but this was a clean way to do it until we had to remove the lines. You can leave the stock Calipers and lines intact while you perform the install until you get to the lines.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_44.jpg
    Now remove the calipers. This is where that bungee cord comes in handy.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_45.jpg
    Now remove the Rotor. Impact gun comes in handy here and speeds up the process. If not good ol fashion sockets will do.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_48.jpg

    Before moving forward we still wanted to see how the new Rotor would fit on the stock backing plate. As expected it did not work it.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_50.jpg
    We also wanted to see if the Caliper would clear on the stock backing plate. It was close but looked like it would fit once all bolted up.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_53.jpg

    Now that we have the rotor off you will need to pop the hub off in order to get to the backing plate. If anything this is just a pain but you have to do it. If you choose you can service your wheel bearing if you like. Everything looks great here so we proceeded without any additional work and remove the stock backing plate.

    There are probably some fancy tools for this but my brother and I are old school. Screw driver and a hammer was all we needed to get separate.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_55.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_59.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_62.jpgSHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_63.jpg

    Does not hurt to do a little clean up and make sure you do not get any dirt or grime in there.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_64.jpg

    Install the new backing plates and reassemble.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_67.jpgSHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_104.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_69.jpg

    Install the calipers(s) and StopTech Rotors

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_73.jpg

    Once the calipers are installed you can install your pads. As noted we went with OEM pads instead of Ceramic or Metallic pads. Eventually I will upgrade to a more aggressive compound.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_79.jpg

    Comparison of the stock Tacoma 13WG and 14WA Calipers. From the Naked Eye they are very similar and roughly the same size. The larger pistons internally is where its at. In addition the mounting points of the 4Runner Caliper accommodate the larger Rotor.

    IMG_7060.jpg
    Visual Comparison of the stock Rotor and new Slotted Stoptech Rotor. They are noticeably larger and look a hell of a lot better.

    IMG_7064.jpg

    Now that both calipers are complete lets work on some lines. With some different plans I have in mind for my setup I went with 4" over stock lines. I meant to only get this for the rear but ended up getting them Front and Rear. Highly recommend that when you order you go with +2 for mid travel setups instead of 4". If you end up with 4" return or keep an eye out. So far they have been okay as they conform where it is not interfering with the coil-over but that was the main concern. You will see in the rear they are long but not as problematic. The lines used are the set offered by @Low Range Off-Road and are solid. Good quality lines and after a couple months have held up well.

    If you have not already done so, now would be the time to remove the stock lines. Have something handy to plug the line or have a buddy hold a rag of sorts. We attached the new lines to the calipers and immediately after a quick rag hold the new lines into the factory hard lines.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_82.jpgSHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_84.jpgSHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_119.jpg

    Make sure when you are removing the lines that you use a rag or something to catch any brake fluid. This stuff will degrade anything it touches if you leave it on there. We had some over spray onto the tires below the lift and other parts but quick clean up was okay. A rag of sorts will help prevent exposure. You want to clean up any fluid left on painted surfaces immediately.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_90.jpg

    Front lines installed and ready to be bled.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_93.jpg

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_131.jpg

    Now onto the rear lines. As noted early I went with +4" lines in the rear as I will eventually go with the 12" King Smoothies and B.A.M.F. Shock relocate and want to be ready. Did not hurt to have the extra in the rear.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_143.jpg

    Make sure to clean up any brake fluid that pops out. Since the lines sit up top the rear axle it was bound to need some clean up.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_145.jpg

    Rear is complete.

    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_150.jpg

    Not a big deal but the clips for the lines were a pain to snap back on. All you need is a bit of elbow grease but just a note if they do not snap on right away.SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_166.jpg

    Once lines are installed its time to bleed the brakes. We first tried to bleed the old fashioned way but was not going well. We ended up using a controller of sorts to complete. This part came pretty easy for this setup as my brother has a Snap-On Electronic bleeder. The unit hooks up to the OBDI reader and cycles the brakes. You will still need to be inside the truck to do the pedal but the reader tells you when to push and let us and I believe sometime of vacuum within the system to bleed. Pretty neat little device. My brother enjoyed it as he has purchased it but never used it.

    Make sure to keep track of your covers for your bleeder nipples. We lost a couple for a bit but found them later on.

    IMG_7067.jpg

    With that the install is complete! We had some other work to do before we complete the after install test.


    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_111.jpg SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_131.jpg
    The 4Runner setup looks bad ass behind @SCSPerformance Ray10's. Really fills up the 17" rim well. The StopTech Rotors are a nice touch.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_172.jpg
    And with that we are done and off to record some post install stops. We also added the Dakar 29XL leaf to the existing Dakar Leafs. That will be the only major difference in the after install test.
    SHOPSHEAR_2017_04_23_9999_175.jpg

    POST INSTALL BRAKE TEST

    Video here is of the 3rd pass which came up as the shortest post-install run.
    57 Foot stop via stock Tacoma Brakes ~40mph Rolling Stop


    Video here is the 4th which came up exactly the same.


    RECAP
    Brake setup is not too bad if your mechanically inclined. If you change brakes and bleed lines you can complete this in an afternoon. Having access to a shop makes it 1000x easier but I know that is not the case for everyone. I got lucky my brother works at a shop.

    As you can see from the pre-install test of 61/62 feet at a rolling 40 mph stop there was an improvement to 57 feet consistently after bedding and warming up the brakes to 57 feet in 2 consecutive stops. Addition of the lines also gave it a firmer pedal feel. There is a noticeable bite to the brakes. It is not overally aggressive but it is present. This was the first thing I noticed. Overall setup provided around 8-10% improvement in stopping distance (factoring in human error in brake activation). Down the line I will plan to add a more aggressive compound to see how much an improvement it is to the setup as well as over the stock numbers. I had planned to perform another brake test a month or two later after I had some time on the brakes but due to many factors have not done so. Since then I have added B.A.M.F. skids to the truck for some added weight. I still plan on doing so which will make for a different factor in seeing how well they perform.

    Overall for the cost it is a decent upgrade. You will end up sending $2-$300 on Rotors and pads when brake maintenance comes up. So far it is a great upgrade if you are not ready to shell out a $2,000 or so on a BBK. I am sure those are bad ass but the $2k is needed for other items *cough* (gears, bumpers, racks) *cough* For a few hundred more you can bump up your rotors and piston size. You can sources parts on your own for $4-$500 depending on what you do for calipers and lines or the good folks at @Low Range Off-Road will be putting together a setup that you can buy ready to install. Price is TBD from the guys at LRO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  2. Aug 4, 2017 at 2:16 PM
    #2
    alvinfromhawaii

    alvinfromhawaii Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up, great pics.
     
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  3. Aug 4, 2017 at 3:02 PM
    #3
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Alvin.
     
  4. Aug 7, 2017 at 1:28 PM
    #4
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    A bunch of pictures went missing so I had to update the post. Due to the limit of 50 pictures in the post I had to remove some when I get some more time I will break it up into 2 posts. Right now it covers the majority. I had a few more good photos I had in there. Just more on the install and comparisons for folks
     
  5. Aug 10, 2017 at 7:44 AM
    #5
    Hit n Run

    Hit n Run Well-Known Member

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    Awesome, thanks for providing all the details. Will the stock brake lines work with this swap for a non-lifted truck?
     
  6. Aug 10, 2017 at 8:05 AM
    #6
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yes stock lines would work.
     
  7. Aug 10, 2017 at 9:07 AM
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    Hit n Run

    Hit n Run Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again!!
     
  8. Aug 10, 2017 at 9:22 AM
    #8
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing!
     
  9. Aug 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM
    #9
    JaxJacket

    JaxJacket Well-Known Member

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    Did the pins and spring for the original pads work with the new caliper, or did the rebuilt calipers come with them?
     
  10. Aug 13, 2017 at 12:59 PM
    #10
    fatfurious2

    fatfurious2 EAF YO

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    i know this is off topic, but how much capacity do you think the D29XL AAL gave you?
     
  11. Aug 19, 2017 at 11:20 PM
    #11
    4x4Taco09

    4x4Taco09 Well-Known Member

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    Ran into 2 problems doing mine. One was because of a flaw from the factory

    1. The short hardline from the factory caliper to rubber line, on the rubber line side the flare was all jacked up. I ran to the hardware store and bought an 8" pre fabbed line and bent it to fit. No big deal

    2. I went with EBC pads. Idk of it's the pads or the rotors, but the pads came with these sleeves that are the "shims" that snap into place in the pistons. With those in, the pads would not fit! I rebuilt my calipers so the pistons were bottomed out. With them removed the pads just barely fit. Once I "bed" in the pads I'm going to see if I can fit those shims in there. But I don't think it'll be a problem running them without them

    The initial bite is stronger. Not a big crazy upgrade, but I wanted to replace the rotors and pads anyway, and I wanted to build something or spend some free time working on something for the truck. I got the calipers on eBay for like $80 for the pair, so I took my time and smoothed them up, painted, sticker, cleared them. Because why not

    Thanks for the initial write up!

    I have the rear lines to swap as well, I just didn't do it because I was beat after today. Plus just pulling the clips and breaking the lines loose on the top end of the lines is going to be a pita probably
     
  12. Aug 20, 2017 at 9:35 AM
    #12
    Toyoland66

    Toyoland66 Well-Known Member

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    Good write up.

    You have a typo - Your brother has a Land Cruiser, not a Land Rover.
     
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  13. Aug 24, 2017 at 5:01 PM
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    steveh_2007

    steveh_2007 Pro Member

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  14. Aug 24, 2017 at 5:30 PM
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    mahon

    mahon Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone confirm this will work with sport 17" wheels?
     
  15. Aug 25, 2017 at 12:15 AM
    #15
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Good catch. Completely missed that.
     
  16. Aug 25, 2017 at 12:15 AM
    #16
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Should work fine. They work with stock 4 runner wheels.
     
  17. Aug 25, 2017 at 12:16 AM
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    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    13 TRD OffRoad 4x4
    Money Pit....
    Looking good. Interesting if they need the shims. Curious if you have to have those. I almost went with the same pad.
     
  18. Aug 25, 2017 at 7:59 AM
    #18
    4x4Taco09

    4x4Taco09 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Member:
    #63687
    Messages:
    2,342
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Dane
    Louisiana
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Sport 4x4 BSP DC LB
    Kings, Deavers, Brute Force, Prinsu, Lights, all the stuff
    I hear a little bit of brake noise while creeping up at a stop light. This weekend Ill pull the front tires off and see if theres enough room to put the shims in. Im betting that since I rebuilt the calipers that the pistons weren't COMPLETELY pressed all the way in
     
  19. Aug 31, 2017 at 7:47 AM
    #19
    JStiner

    JStiner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Member:
    #181998
    Messages:
    157
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jason
    Vehicle:
    11 MGM 4x4 4.0 double cab
    KO2s (32s) with 2inch level
    This is my question also?
    Will this be a "kit" made available you know for the lazy that don't want to track it all down.

    Need a price shipped to 62704 please
     
  20. Aug 31, 2017 at 8:10 AM
    #20
    eccracer104

    eccracer104 O.G. Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Member:
    #5854
    Messages:
    12,830
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2015 4x4 TRD OR AC

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