1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Computer controlled throttle with manual transmission...

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by PA452, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. Apr 4, 2010 at 9:44 AM
    #1
    PA452

    PA452 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Member:
    #1445
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Western PA
    Vehicle:
    15 Access TRD Offroad, V6, 5spd Auto, 4x4
    How many of you find the computer controlled throttle to frequently not mesh so well with the shifting of a manual transmission?

    I get by, have been for three years now. But I've had to adjust my driving/shifting significantly for this truck. In every other MT vehicle I've owned/driven, I'm used to the RPMs dropping as soon as I take my foot off the accelerator. In this truck, what brings the RPMs down is when they're forced down by letting the clutch out in the next gear.

    What are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. Apr 4, 2010 at 9:50 AM
    #2
    MGRS

    MGRS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Member:
    #10790
    Messages:
    140
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    08 6spd TRD 4x4
    Agreed, driving my '08 Tacoma was the most adjusting I have done to drive a properly functioning MT vehicle. MTs are all I have driven from a 77 IHC Scout to an 04 Jetta TDI.

    The hanging RPMs do bother me. I think it was an attempt by Toyota to automatically rev match, but that is something I would rather do on my own. I picked a manual trans, after all.

    I do like the engine braking feature. I hardly use the brakes at all. It is great when towing. The only problem is that I have almost been rear ended several times due to the lack of brake lights while slowing down.
     
  3. Apr 4, 2010 at 1:29 PM
    #3
    Mr_Torque

    Mr_Torque Buy the Ticket take the Ride.....

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Member:
    #8877
    Messages:
    180
    Gender:
    Male
    Perkasie,PA
    Vehicle:
    '07 Tacoma SR5 4WD V-6 6 Spd
    MBRP Exhaust, 17" FJ Steelies w/Firestone AT's, Truxedo Lopro ,Timbren SES, Pioneer FH-X720BT HU & TS-C720PRS Component Speakers, TRD Quickshifter, Bilstein 6112/5160, Light Racing UCA, and Icon Progressive add a leaf.
    I think that they keep the revs up to help burn fuel better for emissions. I get off the gas a little sooner before I use the clutch and the revving isn't as noticable.
     
  4. Apr 22, 2010 at 9:22 PM
    #4
    PA452

    PA452 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Member:
    #1445
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Western PA
    Vehicle:
    15 Access TRD Offroad, V6, 5spd Auto, 4x4
    I think the slow responsiveness of the throttle is also a factor.

    I've had this truck for over three years now, and I still don't feel like I can fully start out smoothly in first gear from a stop 100% of the time. I'm not saying I stall out or anything like that, but it's not always a smooth start. Any other manual transmission equipped vehicle I have ever driven, I get to a point where I get that "one with the vehicle" type feeling. I still don't have it here.

    It makes sense I guess. You hit the accelerator on this thing, and you have to wait for the computer to decide to 'fulfill your request' for more throttle. So to get that "one with the vehicle" feeling, the best you can do is try to anticipate how the computer is going to react when you press the pedal.
     
  5. Apr 23, 2010 at 6:34 AM
    #5
    PA452

    PA452 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Member:
    #1445
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Western PA
    Vehicle:
    15 Access TRD Offroad, V6, 5spd Auto, 4x4
    I can't say for sure, but I don't think that really has anything to do with it. For example, put the truck in neutral and tap the gas. Watch the tach, and you can see the response is always delayed. For that matter, if you tap it fast enough, the tach will never budge, not at all. It's like you're telling the computer what you want it to do, but it decides when and how. So under those circumstances, I think it makes it more difficult to have a smooth, controlled start with a manual transmission.

    In other words, a vehicle with a throttle reaction that is completely predictable and controllable will give you more precision as you learn the subtleties of the engine. But having the computer control the throttle, it's almost like driving with a middle man between you and the engine, and that middle man doesn't get it right.
     
  6. Apr 23, 2010 at 6:49 AM
    #6
    ttylerr

    ttylerr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Member:
    #17913
    Messages:
    833
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tyler
    Fort McMurray, Alberta
    Vehicle:
    09 MGM 4Banger 4x4
    5% tint all around, Alpine IVA-W505, 16x8 Mojave Teflon Rims w/Hercules Terra Trac 265/75, Grillcraft Grill, Slimcubby HIDs, Front 5100's @ 0 w/Eibach 1.6" springs, URD Short Shifter, Extang Trifecta Tonneau Cover, Uniden Pro510XL and K30Mag Mount, Relentless Fab Bumper soon to come
    my tacoma is my first manual vehicle so ive never really noticed the hanging rpms until joining this site and reading about it. it is nearly impossible to start off smoothly though even after a year of driving it
     
  7. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:04 AM
    #7
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Member:
    #2352
    Messages:
    8,337
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Robert
    Escondido, CA
    Vehicle:
    07 4x4 DC SR5 TRD Off-road
    Weathertech front & rear mats, rear suspension TSB, Toytec AAL for TSB, Hi-Lift Jack, Bilstein 5100 & Toytec Adjustable coilovers, Built Right UCAs, KMC XD 795 Hoss Wheels, Definity Dakota MTs 285/75R16, Leer XR, Thule Tracker II & Thule MOAB basket
    I have no problem starting off smoothly. I think it has more to do with the tall gearing of first gear. I have larger tires (285s) now so it's not as much of an issue. Makes 1st gear more useable.
     
  8. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:10 AM
    #8
    RainDodger

    RainDodger YGWYPF

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Member:
    #26412
    Messages:
    363
    Gender:
    Male
    Great Northwest
    Vehicle:
    '09 Black, TRD Sport
    None yet! It's new!
    Throttle response sucks. It took me about 2 months to really get used to the weird things it does by itself. I wrote one letter to Toyota corporate and one to the TRD division and told them exactly that. I told them I'd pay to get my plain old throttle cable back, along with its far better sensitivity. No response yet and I don't expect any.

    There's no going back though - times are changing and soon there won't be any mechanical controls.
     
  9. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:15 AM
    #9
    TOYOTA 09

    TOYOTA 09 Kicking Ass Since 1981

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Member:
    #31266
    Messages:
    942
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2009 SR5 MT 4x4 Access Cab
    Preview 2009 SR5 4x4 MT Black Sand Pearl (Access Cab) SUSPENSION ToyTec 5100 Billstein Coil Overs (3" Lift) Fox 2.0 Remote Res Rear Shocks Total Chaos UCAs Full Dakar Leaf Pack w/Extra AAL TIRES & WHEELS BFG AT KOs 265/75/16 load range E American Rancing AR-23 Wheels Borla CAT back exhaust AFE cold air intake w/custom TRD clear cover Satoshi grill w/Grill Craft insert Hella 500 behind grill lights Rigid Industries Backup lights Interior Custom LEDs and Bed Lights Backup Cam Anytime MOD Leather armrest and rear seat MOD Weathertech floor liners Custom rear gear/dog platform Cobra CB and Garmin GPS Bed Mat UWS low pro tool box with Custom LED lights Diff breather MOD Custom painted engine cover Wet Okole seat covers
    I've noticed while driving along in second gear, and letting off the gas, the truck starts to engine break...slows down, slows down...and then at a certain point the engine breaking releases and i just coast. Kind of sucks when trying to engine break for a stop sign usining second and i'm just about at the sign and the engine unwinds and i need to step on the break and down shift to 1 or N....is this normal?
     
  10. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:19 AM
    #10
    PA452

    PA452 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Member:
    #1445
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Western PA
    Vehicle:
    15 Access TRD Offroad, V6, 5spd Auto, 4x4
    Normal, as in the norm among Tacomas, yes.

    That particular feature really disturbed me when I first got the truck in 2007. Just like you said, I would be in gear coasting toward a point where I would need to stop, or perhaps just toward slower moving traffic. Suddenly the computer would decide I was letting the RPMs go too low for that gear, which I wasn't, and it would actually give it more throttle on its own. That really pissed me off.

    I don't have problems with that anymore, just because I know that will happen so I don't let the RPMs get too low while slowing down. But it's kind of a shocking feeling when you're slowing down, seemingly in control of your vehicle, when suddenly the computer decides to stop slowing you down and actually speed you up.
     
  11. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:29 AM
    #11
    PA452

    PA452 [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Member:
    #1445
    Messages:
    665
    Gender:
    Male
    Western PA
    Vehicle:
    15 Access TRD Offroad, V6, 5spd Auto, 4x4
    I can usually start off smoothly, but not always. "Smoothly" may not be the right word. When I start out, many of my starts are not...efficient. It's hard to predict what the computer is going to do when you start to let out that clutch and switch your foot from the brake to the accelerator.

    When you start out in first, you want to get the right balance of clutch engagement with throttle, right? Too little throttle, and you stall out or have a rough start. Too much, and you spin the wheels or jerk forward.

    Well with a conventional throttle system, you quickly get used to the feel of your throttle. When you get that "one with the vehicle" feeling, you don't think about it, you just go. In every other vehicle, the starts feel and sound seamless and graceful. In this vehicle, about half of them sound retarded. It's like you're letting out the clutch (mechanical), and with your other foot, you're telling your little dimwitted electronic friend how to adjust the throttle, rather than doing it yourself. It's never going to be the same.

    I think the clutch is what takes the punishment for it. You can use the clutch to compensate for too much throttle and to some degree too little, but it sure as hell isn't the way it should be.
     
  12. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:36 AM
    #12
    TOYOTA 09

    TOYOTA 09 Kicking Ass Since 1981

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Member:
    #31266
    Messages:
    942
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2009 SR5 MT 4x4 Access Cab
    Preview 2009 SR5 4x4 MT Black Sand Pearl (Access Cab) SUSPENSION ToyTec 5100 Billstein Coil Overs (3" Lift) Fox 2.0 Remote Res Rear Shocks Total Chaos UCAs Full Dakar Leaf Pack w/Extra AAL TIRES & WHEELS BFG AT KOs 265/75/16 load range E American Rancing AR-23 Wheels Borla CAT back exhaust AFE cold air intake w/custom TRD clear cover Satoshi grill w/Grill Craft insert Hella 500 behind grill lights Rigid Industries Backup lights Interior Custom LEDs and Bed Lights Backup Cam Anytime MOD Leather armrest and rear seat MOD Weathertech floor liners Custom rear gear/dog platform Cobra CB and Garmin GPS Bed Mat UWS low pro tool box with Custom LED lights Diff breather MOD Custom painted engine cover Wet Okole seat covers
    ^agreed!
     
  13. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:38 AM
    #13
    NAAC3TACO

    NAAC3TACO Just east of crazy

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Member:
    #8350
    Messages:
    4,265
    Gender:
    Male
    Sparks, NV
    Vehicle:
    2014 SR5 DCLB 4x4
    Color matched door handles, Weathertech floor liners, bed mat, Durafit seat covers, tailgate clamp, 2016 TRD Sport 17" wheels with Toyo A30 tires, Toyota exhaust tip, Toyota/Yakima bike rail mount, Toyota wheel locks, Toyota hitch cover.
    This is the first of many manual transmission vehicles that I've driven where I wish it was an automatic. I've been driving manuals since I got my license in 1983, I've owned this truck for 2 years, and I am still having issues with smooth starts.
     
  14. Apr 23, 2010 at 7:44 AM
    #14
    jassco

    jassco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Member:
    #20568
    Messages:
    558
    Gender:
    Male
    Boston
    Vehicle:
    2010 Access Cab 2.7L SR5 5spd, 4x4
    5100 set to .85 w/ rear TSB, 2012 Rear-view Mirror, Grillecraft, Team Trails FJ Wheels, TPMS canister, Rear headrest delete, Rear console delete, Valley Hitch, Frame undercoat, $2.99 Tailgate hose clamp lock, Avid light bar, 4x4 lighted switch ala Biceman.
    Glad I am not alone here with my 2010, not much has changed. I enjoy it and wouldn't want an auto right now, but it is the hardest manual I've ever driven.

    I noticed someone else mentioned that shifting at higher RPM is smoother and I agree. My 2nd gear is difficult to shift into unless i hit about 3k RPM in first then shift and it glides right in. Every other gear I can shift 2500 normal.
     
  15. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:01 AM
    #15
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Member:
    #1138
    Messages:
    14,256
    Gender:
    Female
    First Name:
    Jandy
    Lancaster, PA
    Vehicle:
    2016 GMC Canyon SLT w/ LineX and....
    That's exactly why I bought an Auto.

    I hated the fact the RPM's didn't drop when you press the clutch in. During my test drive, I was like..."What the hell is that about?"

    I love manuals, but that annoyed me on the test drive.
     
  16. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:02 AM
    #16
    TOYOTA 09

    TOYOTA 09 Kicking Ass Since 1981

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Member:
    #31266
    Messages:
    942
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2009 SR5 MT 4x4 Access Cab
    Preview 2009 SR5 4x4 MT Black Sand Pearl (Access Cab) SUSPENSION ToyTec 5100 Billstein Coil Overs (3" Lift) Fox 2.0 Remote Res Rear Shocks Total Chaos UCAs Full Dakar Leaf Pack w/Extra AAL TIRES & WHEELS BFG AT KOs 265/75/16 load range E American Rancing AR-23 Wheels Borla CAT back exhaust AFE cold air intake w/custom TRD clear cover Satoshi grill w/Grill Craft insert Hella 500 behind grill lights Rigid Industries Backup lights Interior Custom LEDs and Bed Lights Backup Cam Anytime MOD Leather armrest and rear seat MOD Weathertech floor liners Custom rear gear/dog platform Cobra CB and Garmin GPS Bed Mat UWS low pro tool box with Custom LED lights Diff breather MOD Custom painted engine cover Wet Okole seat covers
    ^agreed....can all this high reving up to 3K do damage? It can't be good for feul economy! and sounds aweful people or other cars next to me when doing so. sounds like i don't know when to shift! BUT I DO!! :)
     
  17. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:11 AM
    #17
    RainDodger

    RainDodger YGWYPF

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Member:
    #26412
    Messages:
    363
    Gender:
    Male
    Great Northwest
    Vehicle:
    '09 Black, TRD Sport
    None yet! It's new!
    Well... I'm fortunate enough to also have an '08 FJ, that has an auto trans. So I can sort of compare side-by-side. I prefer the manual 6 spd in the Tacoma, now that I've gotten used to it. It simply allows you to have more control. The FJ is very nice in traffic of course, but it does do the occasional odd thing. Like when accelerating quickly, it will downshift further than it should if you don't anticipate it with the accelerator pedal. Something to keep in mind though - it's basically a truck. It's not a car. The trans is being asked to handle a lot of different things, from on-street stuff, to off-road. In all, if you keep that in mind and deal with the idiosyncrasies, they both do an ok job. Yes, I'd rather have total control with no computer weirdness, but when you consider all the other stuff the computer controls do for you, our vehicles work well. I like mine.... part of that is because I remember the old days when you had a manual choke, your vehicle wouldn't idle worth a crap until it warmed up, you didn't have stuff like intermittent wipers, all-synchro transmissions and heaters that actually work. You guys need to enjoy what you have and be thankful. :) Yes, I'm that old.
     
  18. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:11 AM
    #18
    jassco

    jassco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Member:
    #20568
    Messages:
    558
    Gender:
    Male
    Boston
    Vehicle:
    2010 Access Cab 2.7L SR5 5spd, 4x4
    5100 set to .85 w/ rear TSB, 2012 Rear-view Mirror, Grillecraft, Team Trails FJ Wheels, TPMS canister, Rear headrest delete, Rear console delete, Valley Hitch, Frame undercoat, $2.99 Tailgate hose clamp lock, Avid light bar, 4x4 lighted switch ala Biceman.
    Given the stiff shift to second at 2500 vs smooth glide into at 3000 I would say that shifting lower is worse on the syncros in mine till it warms up more. 3000 isnt that high and its only for 2nd gear I can shift normal and at 2200-2500 any other gear. I average 20-23mpg.

    I also shift slower and that lets the RPMS come down more.

    The following is my OPINION not fact:::::::::
    I've seen videos of people's tachs and mine dont seem to "hang" like some do especially the 4.0, but I don't want to start that back and forth mess. I think people want to shift faster and this doesn't jive with this truck.
     
  19. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:12 AM
    #19
    stangkeip10

    stangkeip10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2010
    Member:
    #34210
    Messages:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Cincinnati
    Vehicle:
    '10 Magnet Gray 4x4 Access Cab SR5
    BHLM, Black OR TRD wheels, BFG Mud terrains, yellow wire mod, 5100s @ 2.5, toytec tsb aal
    I came from a 6 speed altima and that thing was hard to start out smooth, the "sweet spot" was so small. i have found the tacoma to be very smooth as long as you rev up the rpms before releasing the clutch.
     
  20. Apr 23, 2010 at 8:28 AM
    #20
    zdog

    zdog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Member:
    #32167
    Messages:
    75
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    John
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2010 5lug Access Cab SR5 2.7/5speed
    I have trouble starting from a stop on a hill with my 2.7 5 speed. I miss the old fashion throttle cable. I often kill it or over rev and slip the clutch more than needed. I took a manual transmission to have more control over fuel economy. I most often shift below 2k. I am up to almost 26.5 mpg for 50/50 type driving.


    ZDog
     
To Top