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Confused about Traction Control Systems

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Gincoma, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Dec 29, 2012 at 7:32 AM
    #41
    Westside

    Westside Southbound

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    And does it well. Truck drifting hard left, nanny pulses the LF brake snapping the truck back. Then a slight pulse of the RF brake to handle the overcorrection momentum. All happening in split second timing.
    I understand folks disdain for these systems but they work well within their designed parameters. The disable mod is a simple way around it and easy to do
     
  2. Dec 29, 2012 at 8:26 AM
    #42
    pra4sno

    pra4sno Goof Ball

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    ^ Absolutely. Most of us aren't taking our eyes off the road, or driving around on our cell phone. Its just that we aren't always in a reactionary "race car driver" mindset. Traction control is great for those moments!
     
  3. Dec 29, 2012 at 9:31 AM
    #43
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is refreshing and also sad... So they invented a way to turn off traction control (TRAC) but leave stability control on (VSC)... yet VSC uses TRAC to stop sideways sliding. I would have preferred they did the opposite: Have a VSC OFF that left the TRAC on, but got rid of the beep-beep-beep which happens a lot when off roading and sliding around. TRAC in H4 is a great improvement in off roading with the wheel spin power transferring power to the good traction tires, but we only get it married to the VSC, which is more for highway speed safety.

    In H2, we have this in AUTO LSD to 30 mph (traction control and no VSC)... I was really hoping they would apply this to H4.

    You know, in re-reading the manual you posted... it doesn't say that is TRAC OFF just in H2... Please post what your manual says about AUTO LSD (TRAC OFF MODE in H2)... and anything it says about traction control in H4... Is TRAC OFF in H4 the same as it is in H2, ie. more traction control?
     
  4. Dec 29, 2012 at 4:46 PM
    #44
    Gincoma

    Gincoma [OP] Special Edition Member

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    Factory Monster Truck Package with reverse gear.
    I'm glad I have all these systems but can you imagine for the average Joe of being confused about all this or not knowing what your truck is capable of...when I get the chance I'll scan or take pictures the pages of the 13' manual
     
  5. Dec 29, 2012 at 5:02 PM
    #45
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Someone was there .

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    I was surprised that Toyota has allowed such a mess to go uncorrected for so long. They don't even locate the traction controls together.

    A rotating selector similar to the 2H/4H/4L switch, with control of most of the ABS related traction aids would do much to sort it all out. Position the transfer case and that traction aid switch together, as well as any other traction controls (DAC, Crawl, Rear Diff Lock, KDSS, etc.). Tie the controls to a small, multi-function display and it'd be much easier for the driver to keep track of the level of ABS related assistance, other traction systems, as well as the state of the transfer case and rear differential.

    A driver should be able to hop into any modern Toyota and quickly learn to operate the traction systems, and that knowledge should be transferable to any other Toyota product.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2012 at 5:05 PM
    #46
    4WD

    4WD cRaZy oLdmAn

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    They can't even get their shit together enough to put on decent leafsprings, I'm betting that they won't EVEN try to straighten out the electronics.....
     
  7. Dec 29, 2012 at 5:11 PM
    #47
    DoorDing

    DoorDing Someone was there .

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    The man has a point.

    Still, how hard would it be to leave the existing switch gear and dash lights as they are, and simply group the damn switches together? A-TRAC here, Rear Diff Lock there. That's some dumb stuff. If I ever have the dash apart, I may move a few switches to the center console knock outs.

    But I shouldn't have to. Of course, I shouldn't have to replace my OR leaf springs just to take a camping trip, either. :mad:
     
  8. Dec 29, 2012 at 5:28 PM
    #48
    P9HST2

    P9HST2 Well-Known Member

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    LOL DoorDing! I always wondered why the A-TRAC button is lost way over there. You've got to be pretty quick with your hands to switch between all these modes! ;)
     
  9. Dec 30, 2012 at 12:30 AM
    #49
    Gincoma

    Gincoma [OP] Special Edition Member

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    it would of Been smart to move the 12v where the ATrac is and atrac where the 12v is.. I'm sure it can be moved if someone took the time to
     
  10. Dec 30, 2012 at 9:16 AM
    #50
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    I like your guys's ideas on moving the buttons or making them into a dial, or whatever... That would make them more important. I wonder how many Tacoma owners never touch any of them and don't have as much fun (and frustration) as we on TW do!!??

    About the A-TRAC button... like the Ronco roaster: Set It and Forget It! In other words, press it the first time you go into L4 and leave it that way. The rare instance is when you are crawling in low range and DON'T want all the tires to work for you! The normal mode is no control in L4 and that means just one tire in front and one in the rear spinning when traction is less under them... the good tires do nothing.

    L4: Leave A-TRAC button to on (standby mode... as A-TRAC only works if you stop moving because traction is lost or the hill is too steep without it).

    L4 Option: Add the rear locker should you ever come to a condition A-TRAC alone can't move you. Or, to have the most traction without hesitation, ie. both rear tires always locked rather than waiting for A-TRAC to 'lock' or control them. When the rear is locked the A-TRAC is only on the front tires and only will go active under 3 mph, ie. when you stop moving and need the front 'locked' too. I have done this when pulling 2WD Tacomas up steep grades or in deep snow.

    H4: Should mostly be in the normal mode (which for 2009-2011 Tacomas is called 'TRAC' but is a stronger, unregulated LSD the same way AUTO LSD is in H2).

    H4 Option: VSC OFF MODE for no traction control for free spinning of tires, no beeping. But, you will have LESS traction ability without limited slip on the front and rear tires as it is TRAC that transfers power to the traction tires and away from the non-traction spinning tires. Both VSC and TRAC are off together, but will come back on if truck is driven 'dangerously'.

    UNKNOWN: TRAC OFF MODE (2012+): Is this more traction like AUTO LSD is 'Trac Off Mode' in H2, OR is this the entire TRAC system turned off, like it sounds? If it is more traction and not 0 traction, then this would be the preferred off road mode in H4.
     
  11. Dec 30, 2012 at 11:11 AM
    #51
    DoorDing

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    I don't know if revamping the controls would elevate their importance, but it'd sure make the system easier to control and understand, as evidenced by:
     
  12. Dec 30, 2012 at 11:28 AM
    #52
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    So DoorDing... please see what more data you can find about the new TRAC OFF MODE in H4. In H2, TRAC OFF means AUTO LSD is ON, and that is good.

    In the 2009-2011 Tacomas, when you go in H4 it is automatically in the AUTO LSD type of traction control (called TRAC in H4 by Toyota).. and pushing the VSC button quickly does nothing.

    Holding in the button, while stopped, for 3-5 seconds turns off VSC and turns off traction control (as it does in H2).

    Does pressing the button quickly in H4 change you from unregualted TRAC (AUTO LSD or TRAC OFF) to regulated TRAC (as it does in H2)?

    *edit, seems this is what there is now: TRAC in H4 is now the same as it is in H2 (ie. regulated, light traction control). TRAC OFF is the 4WD name for AUTO LSD, the unregulated, stronger traction control.

    Wow Toyota... why couldn't you just used 'AUTO LSD' for the name of the same system in 2WD and 4WD? ugggh!

    THE TWO QUESTIONS WE REALLY (I REALLY) WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO: *answers found, I think!

    Is 'TRAC OFF' in 4WD-HI the same unregulated traction control as AUTO LSD is in 2WD? *YES

    Is TRAC ON (no light) the same 'light LSD' as TRAC in 2WD is (regulated)? *YES
     
  13. Dec 30, 2012 at 5:12 PM
    #53
    P9HST2

    P9HST2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all your help, David. I missed this question until just now. I'm copying and pasting from the 2012 Tacoma manual on Toyota's website. I believe it is the same as my paper copy though. http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/owners-manuals

    Here is the 2WD part. I believe the 4WD part is what I posted before. Not including the sections on A-TRAC and locker.

    From page 192 and 193:

    2-4. Using other driving systems
    AUTO LSD system
    The AUTO LSD system aids traction by using the traction control system to control engine performance and braking when one of the rear wheels begins to spin.
    The system should be used only when one of the rear wheels spinning occurs in a ditch or rough surface.

    System operation
    The system can be used on 2WD models and in 2WD mode on 4WD models.
    Press the VSC OFF switch to turn on the system.
    At this time, the AUTO LSD and VSC OFF indicators will come on simultaneously.
    To turn off the system, push the switch again.
    If the engine is turned off while the AUTO LSD indicator is on and then restarted, the indicator will turn off automatically.

    When the AUTO LSD system is operating
    If the rear wheels spin, the slip indicator flashes to indicate that the AUTO LSD system has been controlled the spinning of the rear wheels. [Yes, this typo is in the manual!]

    If the engine is turned off and restarted
    The AUTO LSD system and the indicators are automatically turned off.

    Reactivation of the VSC system linked to vehicle speed
    When the AUTO LSD system is turned on, the VSC system will turn on automatically if vehicle speed increases.

    ---

    One question that I have. You and others have referred to the nanny beeping when VSC kicks in. I have driven in ways that made the VSC kick in several times while in regular 2WD mode like agressive turns at a higher than normal speed on dry pavement, and also in regular 4WD mode driving around in snow. The VSC light comes on but I hear no beeping. Should I be hearing it, or have I just not pushed it far enough or long enough to make it beep, or is this something new too?

    ETA: I do get beeps for the seatbelt and if I open the door with the key in the ignition.
     
  14. Dec 30, 2012 at 6:23 PM
    #54
    P9HST2

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    I also found this while researching info on another thread. Sadly, they don't mention TRAC OFF. I believe this is all generic 2012 Toyota information.

    http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/dashboard-indicators

    Here's a couple relavent items from there:

    "AUTO LSD" indicator [21]


    Indicates that the Auto-LSD is active.
    Auto-LSD is a second level, low-speed traction control feature. The first level, Traction Control, is designed to reduce drive-wheel spin. The key difference in the activation of Auto-LSD is that, along with brake application to a spinning wheel (which helps engage a non-spinning wheel), Auto-LSD also allows engine power to spin the drive wheels faster than the non-drive wheels. This comes in handy on boat ramps, and when driving in modest off-road terrain, where some wheel slippage is desired.


    Active traction control system indicator* [11]

    Indicates that Active Traction Control is engaged.
    Active Traction Control (A-TRAC): A-TRAC is a four-wheel drive (4WD) traction control system with two levels: TRAC (on road), and A-TRAC (off road). Both use a combination of braking force and reduced engine power to restore traction, but A-TRAC doesn’t reduce power to the same extent. When a drive wheel begins to spin, the system compares the speed of all four driven wheels, then uses the ABS system to slow the spinning wheel. Engine power is reduced, and power is simultaneously transferred to a non-spinning wheel on the same axle (or the opposite axle when both wheels on the same axle have lost traction).
     
  15. Jan 2, 2013 at 12:14 AM
    #55
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    Thank Steve... good stuff indeed... but the H4 selections are still a mystery, perhaps?

    IN 2WD: 'TRAC OFF' is AUTO LSD ON (more traction)

    What is 'TRAC OFF' in 4WD-HI, in 2012+ Tacomas? *** I found the answer, see below>>>

    We 2009-2011s do not have a TRAC OFF light or any mode change in H4 with a quick push of the button.

    In H4 we are in TRAC (as Toyota calls it) normally, but it is the 'AUTO LSD' level of traction control and not the TRAC of 2WD (which is regulated).

    By stopping and holding down the button we can go into VSC OFF MODE which is no traction control at all and no VSC (same as in 2WD VSC OFF).
     
  16. Jan 2, 2013 at 12:48 AM
    #56
    David K

    David K Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to the online owner's Manual in their wording... 2012 4WD-HI 'TRAC OFF' IS THE SAME AS 2WD 'TRAC OFF', which is AUTO LSD 'ON'.

    2009-2011 4WD HI normal setting is called 'TRAC' but is unregulated engine output/ more traction control
    2012- 4WD HI is in regulated TRAC normally and the VSC button activates the TRAC OFF light and makes it stronger, unregulated traction control
     
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