Dealer Negotiations - 6spd trans. replacement

I'll be doing this soon. My guess is that it's still factory oil.

 

Pressure. Check! I'm going to have some words (nice words, at first ) with the manager next time I'm in there. The customer service guy in there is worthless. Poor communication, not willing to help, somewhat unfriendly, when I asked him about the part number discrepancy (see post #18) he said "OHH I don't know anything about part numbers"... So I just went and asked the parts guy myself. He checked if they were swappable...nope they're not.

 

BOOM! That adds a lot to the pressure. Nice detail check there!

 

I like my dealership, but yeah - the number of calls and requests and emails and other stuff that fly through that building could be a source for any number of PhD dissertations on network efficiency and information flow.

One of my first IT jobs was like that - you'd punch in at the help desk at 8 am and next thing you know, it's 5:30pm and you've talked to 6000 people and haven't accomplished shit.

Anyway - keep your eye on the prize. You're there to get your truck fixed. Not solve their business problems.

It seems like there are two steps here :

1. Find out the actual problem.
2. Deal with how to get it fixed.

I don't think you have solved #1 yet - you just have a list of symptoms and no real certainty as to the actual problem part.

#2 seems like it should be under warranty, honestly.

Just keep patiently and cheerfully advocating for yourself. Don't fall off the radar.

 

I looked at your pictures it is a dual counter shaft set up all gears are free to turn on both shafts the ideal is to make the transmission shorter Toyota is not the only one that does that The input shaft turns with the clutch if the clutch turns the shaft does the gears spin freely around both shafts until they are selected the bearing on the front of the shaft starts spinning as soon as the clutch pedal is released neutral or moving you push in the clutch it stops noise goes away as long as you are not moving in gear. Most transmissions do not have pumps because they usually are not necessary but it looks to me that the shafts are hollow to allow oil flow from the rear pump because of it's complex build. If it does not it should not be flat towed for any long distance because damage may occur to the free spinning gears and their bearings but not to the input shaft because it does not turn with out the engine running. We maybe talking the same thing but the bottom line is the noise the OP is hearing is the input shaft bearing. I did not mean to be a smart ass but for years that is all I did from 3 spd Chevy's to 15 spd Road Rangers it took me forever to get the gear oil out of my blood.

 

Just out of curiosity, is it the same noise you were hearing prior to the TSB? How long ago was that done? Because if it's the squeaking noise it's most likely due to the pilot shaft issue that still has not been corrected. The dealer replaces the tranny housing, which is still aluminum, and the pilot shaft (I believe) is steel, which results in the annoying noise. My friend has had his changed 3 times and still makes the noise. If it is a growl, then this doesn't apply.

 

Mine also growls in neutral. It's done it since purchased at 41K. I now have 59K and I don't believe it's gotten worse. I discussed this with the dealership when the TO bearing was replaced. Per the regional rep, the noise in neutral is normal for the six speed trans. It is most noticeable after a cold start, because of the higher idle speed.

 

Could it be the input shaft gear that drives the countershaft? The noise I hear reminds me of trying to go fast in reverse. I believe the reason reverse is noisy is because the gears are straight cut, instead of helical cut? Perhaps the pitch of the input gear causes it to be noisy when compared to other transmissions?

I'm no expert. Just wondering if you could perhaps help confirm or dispel this idea, since it's obviously causing the OP some grief, and I was told by a Toyota lead tech that this is normal noise on this particular transmission.

Of course, noise diagnosis on the internet is a crapshoot anyway.

There was a member on here who said that his original 06 or 07 trans made noise in neutral. He had some major failure, not sure what, maybe a shift fork or syncros. Anyway, he said the replacement trans is quieter. Maybe they made a change and the guys with newer trucks won't notice this?

 

I'll put this up for a bit. I dragged it out of a pdf I found a while ago. Maybe it'll help explain what's in there.

I see no oil pump in this diagram, maineah, but it's not an end-all answer. I do know when I had my Honda tranny apart it didn't have a pump - there was just an oil catch tray to catch oil off the differential gear and it fed both the mainshaft and countershaft.

<img removed>

 

When you've taken apart your FIRST one, let ME know...

A shaft won't turn unless there is something TURNING IT.

Go have a look at it. Please. Before your foot gets so far down that you're choking on the knee.

COUNTER SHAFT TURNS WITH OUTPUT SHAFT!!!!

OP didn't give enough info.

 

Owners manuals are written to be simple to understand. Absolutely all automatics and 4-cyl must not be flat or RW towed. Easier to just say NO than to write a complicated set of instructions that say don't except X when making sure that Y, Z, A, not B, ...

 

No, not that either! Some are fixed to input shaft, the REST are fixed to COUNTER shaft. Of each mated pair, ONE MUST BE FIXED TO A SHAFT.

Unreadable nonsense. Check your grammar.

THERE IS NO OIL PUMP!!!!

You trying to compare a 3-speed GM POS to a 6-speed AISIN???!?!?

 

LOL! That post was like reading with ascending blood pressure.

The ISB is possible but unlikely since the mainshaft is lubricated from that end. On my Honda where it was lubed from the other end, the ISB was a common problem and for those in the know is often changed when the clutch is.

I don't know where he got the idea for dual countershafts.

 

Simplistic drawing. Check the links to the FSM I posted on the previous page. DEFINITELY no oil pump.

 

Look I'm not going there you are saying the same thing I am "Selectable" gears spin free drive gears are fixed it does not matter what counter shaft they are on. In the case of the Toyota they are using the input shaft as a counter shaft also that is not unusual. No I'm not comparing a 3 spd Chevy to a 6 spd Toyota any more then comparing a 6 spd Toyota to a 15 spd Road Ranger or even a 6spd Gertag it does not matter what they are they all work exactly the same way only the methodology is different. Did you not say there was a pump in the transfer case on the output shaft? I’m not going argue the oil pump part my comment was “I think the 6 spd has an oil pump”. When you learn MicMac (my first langue) then you may correct my grammar.

 

Yes, same noise prior to TSB as I am hearing now - it didn't change at all. TSB was ~3mo ago. I'll add this in again for easy reading: My receipt says that an FJ clutch release cylinder was installed instead of the Tacoma release cyl. The part numbers are right next to one another on the TSB document - I think he picked the wrong one by mistake. I compared the TSB P/N's to the receipt P/N's to figure this out. After the TSB it seems that the clutch has inconsistent shuddering (not bad but noticable), and tranny is more difficult to shift. But, until I'm convinced otherwise with a very detailed explanation by the manager, the TSB P/N mixup and the tranny bearing noise are two separate issues.

After researching about the bell housing for a couple months (reading on TW and other forums), I've come to the conclusion that the bell housing does not have a steel shaft (new or old P/N). Even tho the part number P/N was rolled, this part did not change. This can happen depending on their engineering drawing system. It happens at work sometimes. For example, if a part in the tranny changes, the assembly that the part belongs to needs to change part number too. This is usually done with a dash number. It's not written in stone, but this is what I think.

FWIW, I think this is a design flaw. The shaft should be steel. Sliding friction on aluminum is much higher than steel, not to mention it's softer, and wears faster. The whole idea behind why the shaft was integrated into the casting is probably to reduce part count - makes it $millions cheaper to produce for every part reduced (hearsay in the aerospace industry). I've also heard (not sure where), that some think the shaft is not aligned with the rest of the clutch assembly/input shaft - I seriously doubt this, unless some catastrophic damage was done to the clutch. When the clutch needs to be replaced, I plan on converting to the URD sleeve kit for these reasons.

What other info can I provide? It's true that with clutch disengaged (foot pressing pedal) the noise stops. I thought I wrote that somewhere here, but maybe I missed it.

I think you're right about reverse gear being straight cut. I think this is true for most vehicles. And yes, this will make it noisy compared to helical gears. The sound I hear is not gear noise though, especially since it occurs in neutral. It's a bearing noise, that goes away with clutch pedal pressed down. Anyway, not trying to diagnose on the interwebs. Just trying to confirm that there is a lack of lubrication in the tranny when flat towing so I can tell the dealer "GIMME A NEW TRANNY BITCHES".

With all of the information you guys are providing, I'm pretty much convinced that there is a lubrication (or lack of it) issue when flat/ RW towing. This supports my theory that I have a bearing starting to fail in the tranny due to towing by the prev. owner.

TW is a great place! I'm new here, and really impressed with the support! You guys rock!

I think I'm caught up now...

 

True. Do you agree that it's ok to dinghy tow if the RWD drive shaft is disconnected? That's the only way I would dinghy tow a 4WD/RWD. And of course front lockers free.

 

Seems to me this is a key point, something that shuts them up about any other counterpoints they might have.

 

Leaving to pick up the truck now. Talked to the manager about this ^^ - he seems to think that it's the correct part, even tho it says FJ. Something about which clutch assembly is put in (Asin or LUK), but I think the Asin or LUK thing only matters for which release BEARING is put in. Not which slave cylinder/release cylinder. I'm going to ask to talk to the mechanic when I get there. Manager said he can tell me for sure. I WILL get to the bottom of this one.

As far as the tranny noise is concerned, factory rep says he has heard the noise before on "many" other tacomas, that the flat tow thing is a good thought, but probably doesn't matter. It's documented early, and I still have ~50k miles and 2 yrs on extended warranty. If anything, I'll take it back this winter, when the noise is really loud.

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

Hate to say it but Toyota is hoping you will sell/trade truck or just go away, I would hire a lawyer.