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Dealership is lost and wants me to buy fairy dust intake

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas' started by lightower, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Sep 12, 2013 at 6:18 PM
    #1
    lightower

    lightower [OP] Member

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    2012 Tacoma Trd double cab, 36km

    - when going over road bumps i hear a rattling noise from the middle to front right suspension. Brought it in and they tightened the exhaust ? Obviously thats not the issue and would like to help these poor souls to fix the issue.
    - other noise is hard to describe but is seems that at lower rpm i hear a similar sound of an empty spray can with mixer balls under the engine... Sounds exactly like poor shifting with a standard...they blamed my use of unleaded fuel(higher octane ..been using 87), then told me to buy STP fuel line cleaner .( I have an automatic )
    - unrelated he told me to buy a KandH intake to improve performance since they can get a really good deal for one thats "specific " to the truck ... Since there are different models, but the one they get is the better one that houses the oxygen sensor-$420 plus tx installed.....fairy dust.

    I called back and im booked again for Tuesday.

    Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  2. Sep 12, 2013 at 6:21 PM
    #2
    Colt562

    Colt562 Well-Known Member

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    whats your question?
     
  3. Sep 12, 2013 at 6:25 PM
    #3
    worthywads

    worthywads Well-Known Member

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    They are recommending leaded fuel?
     
  4. Sep 12, 2013 at 6:30 PM
    #4
    4lo

    4lo Well-Known Member

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    Beavis answered the intake...im answering backward. I'd agree that the sound you're hearing could be pre detonation (mixer balls) I have to use 91 or I get the same. . And the bump related sound could be steering or a number of usual spring slap sounds. I'd focus on finding out what the rattle in the suspension is and not worry about any of it too much.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2013 at 6:31 PM
    #5
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Can't run leaded fuel on the road. That stuff has been outlawed for years. I do agree that the OP should run a few tanks of higher octane fuel.
     
  6. Sep 13, 2013 at 4:55 AM
    #6
    lightower

    lightower [OP] Member

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    Thats the problem alright. So could be sparks,timing,new computer flash,...live with it and pay the higher cost for fuel. This has to be addressed by Toyota.
     
  7. Sep 13, 2013 at 5:16 AM
    #7
    kingston73

    kingston73 Well-Known Member

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    Forget about the other issues, if your dealership is actually recommending you buy the K&N intake I'd go find another dealer.
     
  8. Sep 13, 2013 at 8:20 AM
    #8
    lightower

    lightower [OP] Member

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    I think I better start complaining and looking for another dealer.
     
  9. Sep 13, 2013 at 8:51 AM
    #9
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    You shouldn't have to run premium. The recommended fuel for our truck is 87. You could try changing gas stations. Perhaps you got some bad gas?

    For those in the know, could it be a bad anti-knock sensor? The Tacoma is supposed to be able to retard the timing if it detects knock.
     
  10. Sep 13, 2013 at 9:00 AM
    #10
    Utard

    Utard Well-Known Member

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    Just turn up the music and don't worry about it.

    Its a Toyota for hell sakes.
     
  11. Sep 13, 2013 at 9:21 AM
    #11
    obscurotron

    obscurotron Well-Known Member

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    Picking another dealer isn't likely going to help. Search the forums on the ping/rattle in the engine and you'll see people from all over the United States (and I think a few from Canada) have been blown off by dealers. One poster mentioned a dealer was told by Toyota corporate to replace the heads. But that guy went MIA with no follow-up (lovely) from what I can tell.

    At least 2 posters have been told (by dealer) that a 'fix' is coming in 2-3 months. One person posted that a day ago. Another person posted that...about 2-3 months ago. Yeah, Toyota is engaged in some serious smoke and mirrors B.S.

    My theory - it's not something software will fix. There's probably a hardware component to it. Why? Most of the ping seems to come under light load for most people. Assume for a minute that you're coasting along at 45mph and get on the throttle a bit, at which time the ping kicks in. At coasting VVTi is busy doing it's best "Hey, I'm an EGR system, too!"-imitation. Once you get on the throttle lightly with a light load on the engine, VVTi is programmed to stop pretending to be something it's not and to alter it's behavior. This has been the case since 2005 with the Tacoma and the document about this is available on TIS under the 2005 "New Car Features" tab for the 2005 Tacoma.

    So for several years, Tacomas played this game just fine (or so it seems, complaints seem to be most common in 2010 - 2013 models). Then something changed, and my bet is that something mechanical changed in a revised part for the VVTi system or something related to the VVTi system (oil control valves, the VVTi sensors, maybe a change in the oil passage that leads to the VVTi control valve).

    So based on all the inputs the ECM takes, and all the commands it gives ("VVTi, stop slacking, be VVTi, not EGR! Spark plugs, fire earlier--no later--no earlier-no later--WAIT! Injectors, uhm...INJECT! Crank, what's your position? Cams, WTF are you? My paperwork says N-degrees, but you're at N+z degrees! WTFO?"), it can only balance the results of the hardware to a certain extent. Once a single part of the system is reporting in-spec, but functionally out of spec for the conditions, you get the ping.

    Parts are going to have to get changed out. Maybe very expensive ones. You think Toyota wants to drop millions on that nonsense AGAIN? Do they really want Yet Another Black Eye, especially in something with a historical quality reputation like their smaller trucks? The whole reason MANY of us bought a 2nd gen Tacoma is because we came from 70's, 80's and 90's-era pre-Tacomas and 1st gen Tacomas. Sure they all had some issues, but There are THREE Toyota rigs in my family with >200,000 miles on the clock. An 84 pickup, an 83 pickup and a '98 4Runner (it's closer to 300k as I type, about 2000 miles shy of it). My 1st gen Tacoma (a '97) did 140k easy before I had to trade it (needed room, growing family). My 2004 again was solid (only had that one to 70k) until I had to once again trade up due to a growing family. Logical choice? Another Tacoma. Result? FAIL!

    Toyota is going to lose reputation-based repeat sales en masse over something like that.

    Also, FWIW - Toyota trucks are NOT the only ones with this problem. The Chrysler 3.6L Pentastar (Jeepers!) has issues beyond just the bad heads they have replaced. Some of them ping like this too. That engine also has a VVTi-type system playing EGR in the off hours. Nissan Frontiers? Some have the same problem. Folks with newer (2011+) Mazda CX-5's report PRECISELY the same type of noise under the same conditions in large #'s (no fix).

    All the makers are trying to get every last bit of mechanical energy out of every last spritz of gasoline's chemical energy and they are pushing things to the ragged edge. In the process, they are updating and changing hardware (and software) to make this happen.

    Sorry for the rant. I've been dealing with this since May of this year (16,400 on the truck today, actually -- problem first noticed around 10-11,000). 91 octane helps, but it's NOT a 'fix'.

    As an experiment I put a tank of 87 in the truck yesterday (Shell, good stuff). The noises are worse and all over the power band (but still primarily in that 1500 rpm area). Prior to May 2013, I had only used Chevron, Shell or Valero 87 octane fuel. Nothing changed in May (on my part).

    30 grand turd pile.
     
  12. Sep 13, 2013 at 9:28 AM
    #12
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    It's still recommended. It should run fine on it. You can always put premium in a vehicle that doesn't need it.
     
  13. Sep 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM
    #13
    obscurotron

    obscurotron Well-Known Member

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    No, it hasn't left me stranded. When I'm out in the middle of Nevada later this month, 100+ miles from pavement, I'll keep hoping it doesn't leave me stranded. If it does...it's going to be a long, miserable walk.

    No non-ethanol gasoline available in my area (according to the sites that track such things).

    Sorry for 'too many words'. It was a rant. Someday, some poor sap with the same problem may come along and read it and figure something out. Or he might go "WTF?" and go to the next post. :)
     
  14. Sep 13, 2013 at 10:14 AM
    #14
    obscurotron

    obscurotron Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's running. Whether it's running "fine" is a different animal. Slowly killing your engine is still killing it.

    For what it's worth, it's an issue in the 2GR-FE motor as well (RAV4's).
     
  15. Sep 13, 2013 at 10:37 AM
    #15
    Mr Salty

    Mr Salty "Give up the good to go for the great"

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    I buy the cheap gas and my truck is starting to hate me for it.

    I didn't want to start off too strong and then get cheap, so I started at the bottom and plan to work my way up as we grow old together. I figure this tactic has worked with my wife so why not do the same for my true love. I'll be switching to a higher octane gas here real soon and this will put some spark back into our relationship. Things get boring and more time passes I'll move on to 91 octane and rekindle the flame. Things get slow and boring again, out with the old in with the new and I'll abuse that one just the same.
     
  16. Sep 13, 2013 at 4:16 PM
    #16
    maineah

    maineah Well-Known Member

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    Has any one actually had a failure due to "spark knock"? Please raze your hand.
     
  17. Sep 13, 2013 at 4:44 PM
    #17
    Tuctaco

    Tuctaco Well-Known Member

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    I just started running 91 2 weeks ago, for the same reason. Hot outside, and A/C on gets me pinging when I put my foot into it.
     
  18. Sep 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM
    #18
    raskal

    raskal Well-Known Member

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    have we answered OP's rattle question? Seems everyone is talking gas.

    I'm curious what his solution might be too. I have a rattle when I have the truck loaded (eg: half yard of dirt). Only happens on throttle, when coasting no noise
     
  19. Sep 13, 2013 at 4:54 PM
    #19
    Brandon###

    Brandon### Well-Known Member

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    I switched to Iridium spark plugs and haven't pinged since.

    I switched to iridium just because i happen to have a set laying around, not even thinking they would help with the pinging because it's usually caused by timing or gas octane issues.

    for less than $50 and an hour of your time I highly recommend it


    Like others have said, I would find a new dealership. The K&N intake is a waste of money and your truck will not benefit from the STP" Fuel Line cleaner".

    You're better off having the air in your tires rotated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  20. Sep 14, 2013 at 3:06 PM
    #20
    obscurotron

    obscurotron Well-Known Member

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    After scouring the interwebs about fancy spark plugs, why would iridiums make a difference? A colder iridium? Maybe. Same heat-range iridium? Makes no sense (to me).

    Hell if anyone can explain that, I'm all ears.
     
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