Did Weapons Fail U.S. Troops During Afghanistan Assault?

The platform has evolved and it works. We are not fielding the same rifle that was issued in Vietnam. Its not just our rifle, it's the weapon of the free world. There is a huge legacy factor. Even if you get a new battle implement, It must work within the system. The rifles out there fighting to replace the M4 all take the same round and magazines as any AR type rifle. This is just like when the M1 Garand was introduced, it was specified to take the 30-06 cartridge. In world war II there were alot of bolt action '03's still fighting. 40 plus years after their adoption. The Garand saw service in Vietnam as a sniper platform and it was also chambered in 7.62 Nato and sold to our allies. The M14 is still issued (50 plus years and counting). I think our speed of adaptation has stayed about the same.

If I have left something out, let me know.

 

So what you are saying is it would be rare to find an AR(carbine length) type to group above 1"? Does the shooter have anything to do with this?Like if you took human errors while shooting out of it?Wouldn't most of both types be very accurate?Most important to me , WHAT makes the AK type inaccurate? If a person has an AK with under 3" groups at 100 yds they should hang on to it?What type of AK is able to shoot under 3" groups?

 

What makes an AK reliable is the same thing that makes it less accurate; loose tolerances.
Tighter tolerances with the AR gives it remarkable accuracy but makes it more likely to jam than an AK.
People like to compare them but to me they're apples and oranges.

 

I saw you driving on Scottsdale Road today. I followed you up to Acoma.. you didn't see me

 

FWIW on the AK thing...just like the AR, there are numerous manufacterers and quality levels. a better comparison would be an AR & AK74 that fires the 5.45mmx39mm catridge. Arsenal Inc. out of Nevada is making some pretty sweet Kalashnikovs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Check this out. M16 vs Ak 47. It may shed some light. If you watch the chineese subtitles, you will learn how M16 is written in Chineese.

 

I can tell you from experience that even when cleaning your weapon every 3 days (the text book recommended amount) while in the field, it only takes one sandstorm to clog up your weapon. I am very adamant about weapons maintenance with my Marines and hold myself to the same standard, but quite frankly if you are rolling out on convoy or patrolling for a week or so it's not always feasible to clean your weapon everyday or several times a day (weather/situation dictating) and we need a weapon that won't get all finicky in the event that a situation like that arises. Don't mistake this for laziness as I have seen Marines sacrifice sleep and chow for weapons maintenance.
Unfortunately, the M249 SAW (machine gun) is notorious for jamming regardless of how often it is cleaned and I have been pushing for an improved light machine gun for years. I have fired the SAW plenty of times in my career thus far and I have not ever been make it through an entire belt w/o a jam or stovepipe.
Unfortunately, I don't have a direct line to the Commandant so I haven't gotten my agenda very far.

 

That was me. I was on my way home from a side job. All I was thinking about was a shower.

 

WOW.Those guys can't shoot for shit! They should go teach all Iraqis and Afgahns.....help keep our guys safer.

 

What it really sounds like happened over there is that of the two M4s mentioned in the article one M4 took a round to the receiver and the other M4 worked until it got too hot to hold.

How would a piston design have helped either situation?

 

It might not have but between the two, the piston doesn't transfer heat back to the receiver and may not have gotten the second rifle as hot. Who knows. It's theory and speculation as far as I'm concerned.

 

Thanks for the update. I knew that the 1903's were still being used in WW2 (my grandfather had one issued), and that the M14 is still a used weapon, but didn't realize the Garand made it all the way to Vietnam. My point was that the M-16 had lots of jamming problems when it came out (reportedly), and this article just brings up old issues with the basic platform (or at least, similar problems). A shame that after 40 years these problems are making news again. FWIW, last time I shot a (civilian) AR, I stovepiped 3 out of 5 rounds. However, when I qual'd on a M16 it worked fine.

Thanks to the ones that replied without getting defensive - I wasn't trying to implicate any of you personally. I'll be the first to admit that I love killing paper targets, but I'm not the best at cleaning after. Of course, my weapons are all war-surplus and pretty dirty to begin with! Kudos to you for staying up on your men.

 

I dont agree with that article at all. I was an Infantryman with the 82nd Airborne and served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. My weapons never failed me when I needed them. If weapons do fail it is almost always a direct result of the soldier and their failure to do what is needed to maintain the weapon. Should a weapon fail, any good soldier should be able to determine the problem and take the proper action.

 

The Stoner design is top notch.. Unfortunately these weapons don't get the care required for a design with such tight tolerances...

 

I wonder why he never used the DI again.....

 

NO doubt gas piston is a great addition to the design

 

sounds like its time for Glock to make an assault rifle....

http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

 

Yeah, that's impressive. But not as impressive as this one;
http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php

 

damn it! blocked from work because it is classified as "weapons". i'll have to check it out later in order to intelligently debate with you. but until i can do that i will have to settle for unintelligently debating with you. so i'll start by saying "nuh uh, glock is better"

 

Haha, well we'll say that the XD was put through a 20,000 round torture test and it came through with flying colors. I'm sure Glock would as well.