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diesel tacos

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by emad, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. Feb 14, 2008 at 11:24 PM
    #1
    emad

    emad [OP] Active Member

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    so do any of u know if they are gonna make any in the usa the hiluxs have them i wonder y not here i do know the tundras and seqoias are going to have diesel models coming out soon here in the usa just curious and thought i would ask
     
  2. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:21 AM
    #2
    humanoid

    humanoid bite me

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    I would venture to say in about 2 years or so... but don't hold your breath.
     
  3. Feb 15, 2008 at 4:13 AM
    #3
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    With the way diesel prices have been lately......what's the real benefit?

    I remember about a year or so (or maybe a couple years) people were running out and getting diesels cuz the gas prices were soooo high and diesel was really cheap. Well now...diesel is more than gas!

    If you had a biodiesel setup and could make your own fuel, that's be the ultimate way to go!
     
  4. Feb 15, 2008 at 5:21 AM
    #4
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    Diesel would have to be twice the cost of gasoline for it to be less efficient to drive a Jetta 2.0L (28 MPG) than my old 1998 Jetta TDI (51 MPG).

    On average the new diesel engines are 30-40% more efficient that gasoline engines. Besides that, the engines themselves are much less complicated making their maintenance intervals much longer and their lifespan longer as well. Because of the higher compression ratios, diesel engines are built to a higher standard as well. Also, because of the diesel push in Europe (and the fact that Europeans don't settle for good enough), diesel technology has actually surpassed "Otto" engine technology (Otto being a reference to the man that invented the spark driven internal combustion engine).

    Let's do a more recent comparison.

    I had a 2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD (Common Rail Diesel) with an crap automatic transmission. It averaged 25 MPG in Houston (heavy traffic), and I got an average to 29 MPG on the highway (life of vehicle). It could tow 5,000lbs with no problem on a 4WD Jeep Brick. Best fuel economy I got was 32 MPG.

    My current 2007 Toyota Tacoma 2.7L VVT-i engine with a manual transmission gets an average 20 MPG in San Antonio (much less traffic), and I get an average 23 MPG on the highway (life of vehicle). It can barely tow 4,000lbs on a Tacoma PreRunner. Best fuel economy was 27 MPG.

    If gasoline this morning cost me $2.98 @ 20 gallons that is $59.60. That will last me through 400 miles of city commuting in my Tacoma.

    If diesel this morning cost me $3.42 @ 20 gallons that is $68.40 ($8.80 more). That will last me through 500 miles of city commuting in the old Jeep.

    Let's say fuel prices are a constant for the next year and all I do is in city driving. In the past 13 months I have put 36,000 miles on my Tacoma. At 20 MPG, I have used 1,800 gallons at a cost of $5,364 in fuel. Had that been my old Jeep, I would have used 1,440 gallons of diesel at a cost of $4,924.80. That would have saved me $439.20 in one year.

    The Illusion of Expensive Fuel

    Now, in reality, diesel prices and gasoline prices fluctuate. Diesel is more expensive in the winter months as the same process is used to make heating oil. Heating oil is, of course, in higher demand during colder winters. Every summer diesel prices fall below gasoline prices, and every winter they rise above. It is a trend of the industry.

    BioDiesel...

    Finally, diesel can be made from any oil. The original diesel was made from Peanut Oil, but it was later found (with early 1900's technology) cheaper to produce diesel from crude oil. BioDiesel can be made here in the United States without any dependency on forgein oil. Personally, that reason alone is enough for me to want a diesel engine. The rest of it is why I am putting a 2.8L CRD engine in my Tacoma.

    BTW - I traded the Jeep in because the piece of junk DCX transmission would kill the engine at stop lights, and gear hunt on the highway. The engine is designed by VM Motori in Italy, and assembled by Detroit Diesel in the United States.

    :)
     
  5. Feb 15, 2008 at 5:26 AM
    #5
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

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    If i had the time or patience to "brew" something like that, i would spend time brewing my beer instead of brewing biodiesel :)
     
  6. Feb 15, 2008 at 7:31 AM
    #6
    WildcaTaco

    WildcaTaco Well-Known Member

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    careful that sounds an awful lot like something a Texan would say:p
     
  7. Feb 15, 2008 at 8:07 AM
    #7
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

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    very solid argument. my main attraction to diesel is the engine life and simplicity of the engine. i love the idea of a highly efficient diesel in my taco.
     
  8. Feb 15, 2008 at 8:10 AM
    #8
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

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    Whoa whoa whoa whoa....WHOA!!! no way! Texans dont make their own booze, they just buy it from mexico. the south is known for making (and ridge running) their own booze for a long time now. we started the tradition with good ole fashioned white lightnin. Nothing is more southern (note: texas is not in the south, texas is in texas) than brewing your own booze.
     
  9. Feb 15, 2008 at 11:28 AM
    #9
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    If you don't make your own biodiesel...you also need to take into consideration *where* you need to drive to get diesel. It's not always available and people gotta drive farther to get it.

    It's just not as beneficial as it used to be.

    When I say *biodiesel setup* - I mean......get your dirty veggy oil from fast food restaurants and process it in your basement or garage. Other the cost of the system itself & chemicals involved to brew it....
     
  10. Feb 15, 2008 at 11:53 AM
    #10
    steviestyles

    steviestyles The "Search" tab is your friend!!

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    Didn't we as Americans try to go Diesel in the early 80's? Anyone remember the Cadillac Cimmaron? Sure they were garbage cars, but diesel never kicked off back then and I doubt it will now. Don't our environmental laws keep car manufacturers from wanting to mass produce a viable diesel engine? Europe doesn't have the strict standars we do. If Americans drove diesel cars in place of where we drive gasoline now, the amount of pollution in our big cities would problably almost double. Unless I'm wrong don't diesel still on average pollute more than their gasoline counterparts?
     
  11. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:00 PM
    #11
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    I haven't been to a fuel station yet that didn't have diesel. Even the local Valero on the back road to the lake has diesel.

    As far as bio-diesel goes, there are plenty of areas where you can buy that at the pump too. I used to travel from Houston to Denver on nothing but B100 (100% BioDiesel) in my Jetta. Granted that with a range of almost 600 miles on one 12 gallon tank, that wasn't hard to do.

    As far as making BioDiesel, most people that make their own do so at a cost of less than $1/gallon. My father setup his equipment in North Carolina for a total cost of $300. Personally, I spend that much money on fuel in 1 month. I would much rather take a bit of time to make it myself and drive for much less money on fuel that is better for my engine and the environment.

    I don't understand why you say it isn't as beneficial as it used to be. :confused:
     
  12. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:24 PM
    #12
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    That is incorrect. With the combination of the new injection technologies, new Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (talking about petroleum based since BioDiesel was already ultra-low sulfur), and new emissions technology todays diesel engines have as low or lower emissions than any gasoline vehicle on the road. While older diesels did have more visible polutants, they really didn't polute any more than gasoline engines did.

    Our laws aren't the problem. Public image is the problem. GM ruined the image of the diesel passenger vehicle in the 1980's with the Oldsmobile and Cadillac diesel engines. These engines were nothing more than a converted gasoline engine that wasn't made to take the torque of a diesel compression cycle. Furthermore, they had little to no emissions technology and no turbo to give adequate power to the driver.

    I have driven both diesel (turbo and not) and gasoline (turbo and not). After a total of 13 cars and over 500,000 miles driven between them all, I would much rather have a turbo diesel of equal size any day. Today's diesel engines are more fuel efficient and more fun to drive than their gasoline counterparts. People just need to give them a try.
     
  13. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:30 PM
    #13
    nd

    nd Radical Town. It's a hell of a place!

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    I read that post and i was just waiting for you to come along and crack an egg of knowledge on our heads :)

    I'd love to have a good turbo diesel under my hood. when you get your engine swaped? are you going with teh 4cyl or 6cyl? also, i'm sure you cant give me an exact number but do you have a ballpark cost for the swap?
     
  14. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:51 PM
    #14
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    2009/2010 model years are set to bring us a plethora of new diesel all anounced in the past 12 months. These engines will be much quieter, much more economical, much more fun, and much more efficient than any diesel engine before them...

    Toyota 4.5L Turbo Diesel V8 - in the Tundra and Seqouia

    Ford 4.4L Turbo Diesel V8 - in the Ford F-150

    GM 4.5L Duramax V8 - in the Chevy Silverado 1500, GMC Sierra 1500, Hummer H2, and Chevy Suburban.

    Renault 2.2L Turbo Diesel - in the Nissan Maxima

    Subaru 2.2L Boxer Diesel - in the Subaru Forester and Subaru Legacy/Outback

    Honda 2.2L iCTD-I - in the Acura TSX

    Volkswagen 2.0L TDI - in the Volkswagen Jetta, Rabbit, and Tiguan

    Audi 2.0L TDI - in the Audi A4

    BMW 3.0L Turbo Diesel - in the 5 series

    Mahindra 2.5L Turbo Diesel - in the Appalachain and new SUV
     
  15. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:52 PM
    #15
    steviestyles

    steviestyles The "Search" tab is your friend!!

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    Great info....why don't the auto manufacturers reluctant to build diesels here in the US? Other than VW and big pickups, there really isn't much interest. I haven't driven in a newer diesel car recently, is the engine noise still an issue? Also I know diesels traditionally will run a lot lnger than their gasoline equivalent, but doesn't a diesel engine cost more to maintain, and harder to run in the colder weather?
     
  16. Feb 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM
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    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    I have no idea how much my swap is going to cost me, but I am trying to keep it under $10,000.

    My screwed up reasoning for this - I can wait two years and spend $35,000 on a Chevy with a 4.5L Turbo Diesel Duramax (which is way more truck than I need) OR I could spend $10,000 on top of the $20,000 I already have in my truck. That way I keep the truck I love, but put an engine in it that will last me through $5/gallon fuel prices while still able to do some serious work.

    I will be putting the 2.8L CRD engine in it from a Jeep Liberty (05-06). The engine is not made by Jeep or Dodge, so it isn't prone to the same problems that the rest of the Jeep Liberty has. I loved that engine in my Liberty, but I hated the rest of the vehicle.

    I will let you know more after tax returns... ;)
     
  17. Feb 15, 2008 at 1:22 PM
    #17
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    Think of manufacturers as the lazy guy in your office that wants the credit without doing the work.

    Since the US outlook on diesels is so dreary (thank you, GM), then the US doesn't want diesels. If they don't want diesels, then the manufacturers are going to give them what they do want - powerful V8's, V6's, and bigger, better, meaner vehicles (notice how the Tacoma got bigger? - don't get me started on the "compact" pickup market). On top of this lawmakers are eager to please environmentalists that can visibly see polution coming out of the tailpipes of diesel engines everywhere. Suddenly laws are enacted to cut visible polution. Instead of working on cleaning up diesel's image (which is quite an uphill battle at that point), they concentrate on gasoline engines instead.

    In Europe, where fuel prices have traditionally been double US fuel prices at a minimum, the general public wanted something that was going to be more fuel efficient. Enter diesel and BioDiesel. In the most basic setup a diesel engine is much more fuel efficient. Add high pressure injection, variable geometry turbos, and direct injection. Now you have a vehicle that has triple the torque and almost 1/3 more fuel economy than an equivelant gasoline engine. Oh, and don't think it is just BMW, VW, Audi, Mercedes, and Puegot that are putting out EU diesels. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, and even Honda are on this band wagon too (and it isn't limited to just Europe).

    Getting back to the US, fuel prices are on the rise with wars in the Middle East and South America and oil becoming harder to come by. Hybrid vehicles are very clean, but they aren't showing the fuel economy returns that were expected. Hybrids are also upcoming with costly battery replacements and complicated electrical systems*. Manufacturers are finally starting to feel the squeeze as people start to look for alternatives. Having seen how well the other markets have taken to diesel engines, we are finally starting to see them make their way to our shores (even if they were built here in the first place). Oh, and since those laws finally cleaned up our diesel fuel to make it more refined (ULSD), we have diesel fuel that finally meets the standards set in Europe (10 years ago!).

    Your question about noise - just wait until the new VW TDI comes to market (later this year), and go have a dealer start it up for you. Then ask him to start up a new 2.0T-FSI (the new gas engine). You tell me which one is quieter. ;)

    Cheers!

    * - I like hybrids, and I think they are the future of transportation. They just aren't as far along as they need to be.
     
  18. Feb 15, 2008 at 2:30 PM
    #18
    robinsonda1

    robinsonda1 Well-Known Member

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    007 TACOMA you forgot to factor in the higher initial cost of a diesel vehicle in your analysis. For example the new diesel Jetta is 2k more than the gas model. Don't get me wrong I agree with you,it's just something that needs to be considered.
     
  19. Feb 15, 2008 at 2:37 PM
    #19
    corywilson13

    corywilson13 Canadian Taco

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    I'd rather sniff gasoline...
     
  20. Feb 15, 2008 at 2:58 PM
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    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    It's certainly not as beneficial now that diesel is more expensive than gas. Only a few shorts years ago - diesel was cheaper than gas and seemed everyone wanted diesel. Now.... it's popularity isn't like it used to be due to prices.

    Like I said in a previous post - It's only be worth it if you made your own biodiesel. If you got the stuff for free from fast food restaurants and processed it yourself.
     
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