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Drive by wire question

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by JoeN 267, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Feb 25, 2010 at 6:47 PM
    #1
    JoeN 267

    JoeN 267 [OP] Active Member

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    With all the "recalls" going on now, I have seen the phrase "drive by wire", I looked it up to find the meaning, which I now understand, my question: is my gas pedal or brake pedal (see sig for truck info) using this technology ?
     
  2. Feb 25, 2010 at 7:24 PM
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    HondaGM

    HondaGM Roll Tide

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    yes, gas pedal only
     
  3. Feb 26, 2010 at 8:01 PM
    #3
    kevhogaz

    kevhogaz Low Speed, High Drag

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    I can't imagine we'll ever see "braking by wire". Throttle's run electronically have been around for a long time, and after time, cables will most likely become non-existant.
     
  4. Mar 1, 2010 at 2:30 PM
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    dog tired

    dog tired Well-Known Member

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    They use drive by wire in Jets that cost 60,000,000.00

    To use them in vehicles that cost at the most 40,000.00 is stupid

    or am I wrong ?
     
  5. Mar 3, 2010 at 9:17 PM
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    bmgreene

    bmgreene Well-Known Member

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    That'd explain why I managed to chatter the rear tires stopping on dry pavement in a truck which supposedly has 4-wheel ABS.

    As for the electronic throttle, most/all vehicles with electronic traction/stability control systems will have that sort of system since many (if not all) of those systems are at some point programmed to reduce or cut the throttle.

    It's entirely possible that no new car made in the last 5 years which had a sticker price over 12k still has a mechanical throttle control, and also absolutely true that mechanical throttles aren't immune to sticking anyway. High probability that fewer than five members of Congress or officials with enough juice to call a press conference know enough about cars to understand any of that even if it's been explained to them in detail.

    Don't get too spun up over what the politicians are saying or that the gov't seems intent on inciting panic over Toyotas. Literally dozens of people nationwide continue to drive these cars every day and survive.

    SUA issues in Toyotas have been blamed for 34 deaths in 10 years which would mean that's 34 of over 400,000 in that time (total auto deaths appear to have averaged about 42,000 per year in most of the last decade), so if you're going to die in your car you're more than 10,000 times more likely to not have it due to a Toyota accelerating out of control.
     
  6. Mar 12, 2010 at 8:51 AM
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    coehorn1

    coehorn1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm currently looking at a Tacoma for sale. What is the first year that Tacomas used drive-by-wire gas pedals?
     
  7. Mar 12, 2010 at 9:05 AM
    #7
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    yeah. I cant remember what its called, but it senses the velocity of the brake peddle application, and basically, give max brakeing in an emergency situation..
     
  8. Mar 12, 2010 at 9:09 AM
    #8
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    I found more info on Toyotas site:

    Brake Assist (BA) In emergencies, some drivers, especially inexperienced ones, often panic and do not apply sufficient pressure on the brake pedal. Brake Assist measures the speed and force with which the brake pedal is pushed to determine whether the driver is attempting an emergency stop. If the system determines that is the case, it applies additional brake pressure to allow the driver to take full advantage of the ABS brake system. When the driver intentionally eases up on the brake pedal, the system reduces the amount of assistance it provides. This feature comes with VSC.
     
  9. Mar 12, 2010 at 9:53 AM
    #9
    SManZ

    SManZ el tráfico más lento se queda derecha

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    What? They use windows and seatbelts in $60 million dollar jets. Is it stupid that they are in vehicles too? Tech almost always trickles down.

    Drive-by-wire makes a lot of things possible that aren't with a mechanical linkage. Controlling engine output for traction control is one of them. Engines can also be made to run more efficiently with higher output through drive-by-wire (secondary throttle butterflies is one example).
     
  10. Mar 12, 2010 at 9:57 AM
    #10
    SManZ

    SManZ el tráfico más lento se queda derecha

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    The Tacoma also comes with Electronic Brake-force Distribution. It will distribute brake force depending on load. I couldn't find specifics on it but in general more brake force would go to the rears when loaded vs. not loaded.
     
  11. Mar 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM
    #11
    itsmyturn

    itsmyturn Well-Known Member

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    don't know if toyota uses the system vw has, but vw has a trw abs control module and that thing can have brake by wire. not only sensing brake pedal application speed and force, but the module has an electric pump to apply and hold brakes if needed.

    us drivers are being labeled as sensor inputs, all in the name of emissions. both(drive-by-wire and electronic braking) are pretty solid systems and i'm surprised toyota hasn't narrowed it down to all vehicles with just a software update.
     
  12. Mar 12, 2010 at 11:52 AM
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    bmgreene

    bmgreene Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what year they started with it, but there are some indicators and advertised features on a car with will indicate that it's probably got ETC rather than a mechanical cable:

    Traction Control
    Stability Control
    Cruise Control (might be a few models with CC on manual throttles, but the CC won't hold a speed as well)
    Any system which cuts engine power when the brakes are applied
    ABS brakes aren't a direct correlation, but there are some parts common to both systems.

    Just remember that if you're terrified of ETC and living under the delusion that mechanical throttles are somehow immune to getting stuck, then just avoid buying any vehicle with any of the above features. Also, avoid vehicles from Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Mercedes, BMW, and Audi as they pretty much all have electronic throttles these days.
     
  13. Mar 13, 2010 at 4:31 AM
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    coehorn1

    coehorn1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the heads up. Been driving a long time and the missus and I have both owned Toyotas (Camry and pre-Tacoma truck), but neither of us has had expensive vehicles.

    I don't care for microprocessor control in a conventional vehicle. I can't help but wonder if Toyota is experiencing the same thing that Audi went thru years ago.....
     
  14. Mar 14, 2010 at 11:12 PM
    #14
    bmgreene

    bmgreene Well-Known Member

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    It's got nothing to do with expensive any more. The Mazda3 Pontiac Vibe, and Ford Focus have electronic throttles, and GM full sized trucks have been using them since at least 2003.

    I don't know the whole market model-by-model, but it may be hard to find any car from any maker in any model year past 2004 which actually has a mechanical throttle control. Also if you're worried about computers running important systems, then you'll probably want to avoid any car with ABS, 2nd-generation airbags, speed-sensitive steering, any sort of traction/stability control or any automatic transmission made since at least the mid 1990s.

    A few models which I can pretty much guarantee don't have critical systems run with computers would include the LeCar, Pinto, Vega, Pacer, Gremlin, and anything without a catalytic converter. If you want something built after 1985 there's always the Trabant (they never updated the design after about 1964 except for some cosmetic changes), as long as you don't mind shaking the car after filling up to mix the 2-stroke oil into the gas tank....

    I'm fairly sure that Toyota is going through what happened to Audi in the '80s, since that whole thing turned out be a collection of driver errors and a TV new broadcast willing to rig a car to behave out of control for their story where no real defect existed.

    Remember several years ago when every third headline had something to do with a shark attack? I don't remember exactly which year it was, but of you were to look at shark attack statistics for the last 10 years you wouldn't be able to tell now because there weren't an unusual number of shark attacks, the media just chose to cover every single one prominently.
     
  15. Mar 14, 2010 at 11:25 PM
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    SkyHighTacoma

    SkyHighTacoma Josh

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    For the V6 (5vz-fe) was 2003.
     
  16. Mar 15, 2010 at 4:14 AM
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    EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia Well-Known Member

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    If you mean *partial* electronic intervention with the throttle ...

    That would be 2003 - when the early-edition ETCS-i (Electronic Throttle Control Sytem - Intelligent) setup from the first-generation Tundra was added to V6 Tacomas (other than S-Runners).

    This version of ETCS-i still had a mechanical cable linkage from accelerator pedal to the throttle body. It added an accelerator position sensor and a motorized throttle body, so the ECM could monitor the gas pedal and exert limited control over the fuel intake. If the ETCS-i components failed, the Taco was still capable of being driven in a limp mode.

    If you mean *total* electronic intervention with the throttle ...

    That would be 2005 - when the mechanical cable was eliminated.
     
  17. Mar 15, 2010 at 5:07 AM
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    dexterdog

    dexterdog My pee parts itch

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    You're wrong. What's stupid is drive by wire on the new forklifts we have at work. Terrible
     
  18. Mar 15, 2010 at 10:31 PM
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    SkyHighTacoma

    SkyHighTacoma Josh

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    So could you still rev up the motor from the throttle body?
     
  19. Mar 16, 2010 at 6:05 AM
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    EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you're asking ... ??? ...

    Do you mean "when working in the engine bay, can you still manually manipulate the throttle / accelerator linkage to rev the engine?" If so - yes.
     
  20. Mar 16, 2010 at 7:40 PM
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    SkyHighTacoma

    SkyHighTacoma Josh

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    Sorry. Yes thats what I meant.. Thanks. :D
     
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