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DRL Failures, Locker Indicator Flashing, and Chasing Electrical Gremlins

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by therealprotaco, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. Dec 11, 2019 at 5:34 PM
    #1
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    FINAL UPDATE (9/30/20):

    One year since there was a DRL failure which means about one year with the Morimoto headlights installed. No DRL issues, no headlight issues. It is clear that this problem was Toyota related and NOT Baja Designs related (or any other aftermarket part) as Toyota originally indicated.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As of today there still has been no resolution with Toyota. There is a new issue with the truck related to the rear locker indicator that may be related to electrical issues on the truck. Since this locker indicator did not start until 5.29 gears were recently installed, the shop is sending the truck out for electrical diagnosis to see what is causing the locker indicator to flash at start up and immediately go away when the truck starts moving. The prevailing theory is that it has something to do with voltage spikes and the electromagnet in the rear locker. If all goes well, we will have an actual cause for the voltage signal noise in my truck tomorrow.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    UPDATE:

    As of today there still has been no resolution with Toyota. There is a new issue with the truck related to the rear locker indicator that may be related to electrical issues on the truck. Since this locker indicator did not start until 5.29 gears were recently installed, the shop is sending the truck out for electrical diagnosis to see what is causing the locker indicator to flash at start up and immediately go away when the truck starts moving. The prevailing theory is that it has something to do with voltage spikes and the electromagnet in the rear locker. If all goes well, we will have an actual cause for the voltage signal noise in my truck tomorrow.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    UPDATE:

    Additional scope testing was performed which does not definitively show that any aftermarket parts are to blame for the failures. The voltage spikes are still present regardless of aftermarket parts being uninstalled. I am contacting Toyota today to press forward for an appropriate resolution.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    UPDATE:

    After initially declining to allow them to do so, Toyota decided to allow the dealership to perform additional diagnosis at my expense. The dealership will be performing the same oscilloscope test as previously performed with each aftermarket part disconnected, one by one. If the test shows the same or substantially similar voltage/signal noise as was previously present after all of the parts are removed, I would expect Toyota to perform further diagnosis and/or repair under warranty. If the signal noise drops to the same level as the stock truck they tested, I will remove whatever aftermarket part was causing the signal noise and repair the vehicle myself at my expense.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Disclaimer: I believe that Toyota's diagnosis is nonsense and there is no way that the Baja Designs lights or any other aftermarket parts on the truck are causing this failure.

    Background (I don't think I'm missing anything and have been as accurate as possible since I'm sure Toyota is watching):
    • Purchased New 2019 TRD Pro in January of 2019
    • Raptor Lights installed in January of 2019 (add a fuse into IGN2)
    • First Driver's side DRL failed at 2130 miles in mid March 2019
    • Xenon Depot HID Kit installed in late March 2019 (unsure of date, after 1st DRL Failure)
    • MESO Customs Ultimate Turn Signals installed in April of 2019
    • Second Driver's side DRL failed at 5864 miles in June of 2019
    • MESO Customs Ultimate Map and Dome Lights installed in August of 2019
    • MESO Customs Puddle Pods installed in September of 2019
    • Baja Designs foglights were installed in September of 2019
    • Warn VR10 Winch installed in September of 2019
    • Xenon Depot HID Kit removed September 30, 2019 (before 3rd DRL failure)
    • Third Driver's side DRL failed on October 1, 2019
    I have a great dealership (I know shocking right?) that has done everything they can to get this resolved and after three levels of "Toyota corporate" the field technical supervisor will simply not budge. He is stating that the foglights or other aftermarket LEDs (although their evidence is based only on the foglights) are to blame for the current DRL failure despite the fact that the foglights were not even installed for the first two failures.

    Here is the latest email that I got from the dealership and the "evidence" that the FTS is hanging his hat on:

    Here are the previous relevant emails from the dealership regarding this issue (in order):

    Does anyone have any thoughts on what could actually be causing this issue? My feeling here is that the FTS, for whatever reason, cannot diagnose this issue and rather than admit it has chosen to kick the can down the road. I asked the dealership if I could unplug all aftermarket LEDs and have them run the oscilloscope test again but Toyota told them they could not do that. I offered to pay them to run the test again after I unplug all the aftermarket LEDs and they are reaching out to Toyota again to see if that is OK. I am fairly certain that the noise will still be present with the aftermarket parts unplugged but really want the test done with the same exact oscilloscope so that no equipment calibration variances are present.

    @caribe makaira @MESO @state48overland @PhenixFord @XenonDepot @TRSAndrew @Baja Designs @bonifacio @CaliRaisedLed
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
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  2. Dec 11, 2019 at 5:39 PM
    #2
    rnish

    rnish Well-Known Member

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    TOO much to read. What is the problem? The DLR lights do not work?
     
  3. Dec 11, 2019 at 5:52 PM
    #3
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    It's a good read, you should check it out. Emails from the dealership. Short version is, DRL on Driver's side has burned out 3 times. Toyota doesn't know why but are blaming it on aftermarket parts.
     
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  4. Dec 11, 2019 at 5:53 PM
    #4
    Hobbs

    Hobbs : : : : : : :

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    I love it! "Let's get straight to the point!"
     
  5. Dec 11, 2019 at 5:57 PM
    #5
    Itchyfeet

    Itchyfeet Well-Known Member

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    Just leave your shit stock or buy a square body chevy for $1000 Alex

    Even dumbfuck Darren knows you don'y mess around with these new fangled vehickles with all the pixies flying around
     
  6. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:00 PM
    #6
    rnish

    rnish Well-Known Member

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    I just love those 55 minute, 10 people meetings that could have been handled by a concise 2 paragraph e-mail. :annoyed:
     
  7. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:00 PM
    #7
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    The likelihood of three OEM failures, that are not associated with your specific mods, is highly unlikely. Failure of the DRL assembly is not commonplace on these trucks, and the fact you burned out a third one makes a “bad batch” scenario unlikely.

    I am an electrician, and would say there is some validity to what Toyota is saying. Electrical noise, in places it is not supposed to be, can fry driver circuits for things like LEDs. I would say, somehow, a voltage is being imposed on the DRLs in a polarity, frequency (noise) or amplitude (voltage) that they cannot tolerate.

    There is literally thousands of guys hacking their 3G Tacos with ditch lights, light bars, fog replacements, puddle lights etc, without much mention of a problem. I would say you have one specific aftermarket light that is blasting your DRLs, or you have made one serious wiring error.

    My guess would be the HIDs as they create a lot of electrical noise, and high voltage spikes when turned off or on, but you say you removed those.

    Another possibility is a bad battery-to-chassis connection on the negative terminal, or a bad ground on one of the lights, that is causing it to act like a frequency generator.
     
  8. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:05 PM
    #8
    Hobbs

    Hobbs : : : : : : :

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    Sounds like my weekly work meeting. 98% of the content does not apply to me or the division I work for. Great use of time! :frusty: :rant:
     
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  9. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:11 PM
    #9
    rnish

    rnish Well-Known Member

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  10. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:34 PM
    #10
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    Very interesting. I don’t think wiring or grounding of the lights is the issue since the fogs are installed into the stock circuit with OEM connectors.

    Maybe grounding of the battery to body but there are no other symptoms. I thought HIDs too since they were always problematic but they were installed after the first failure and removed before the last failure. Did you check the scope graph they provided? Do you think that small amount of noise is enough to cause the DRLs to fail? It’s really perplexing though because the fogs weren’t installed until after the 2nd failure.

    The only aftermarket part that was there the whole time was the raptor lights.
     
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  11. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:35 PM
    #11
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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  12. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:38 PM
    #12
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    I’m at my kids Christmas concert right now. I’ll look more closely when I’m back home.
     
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  13. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:39 PM
    #13
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    Can’t see the graph. Try and screenshot and post it as a jpg.
     
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  14. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:40 PM
    #14
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    Thanks! Family first!
     
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  15. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:40 PM
    #15
    Stocklocker

    Stocklocker Well-Known Member

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    Mostly! :D;)

    Taco people are family too.
     
  16. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:41 PM
    #16
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    A54BBD90-78E4-4111-B86D-DEA539F93CC9.jpg
     
  17. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:44 PM
    #17
    MaHoTex

    MaHoTex Well-Known Member

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    I am a EE and agree with what you are saying. I would say Toyota is probably 100% accurate with the diagnosis. Go get a scope and see what it shows and start eliminating things. You can bet it is something you introduced and it is just a matter of figuring out what item it is.
     
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  18. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:50 PM
    #18
    therealprotaco

    therealprotaco [OP] Always Skeptical

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    Do you think the minimal voltage noise that they found is sufficient to cause that type of failure? Worth it to pay them to run the test again with all of the LEDs unplugged? Run the test with each part unplugged one at a time to see which is causing the failure? Just say F it and pull all of them?
     
  19. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:51 PM
    #19
    Stocklocker

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    I have a little bit of time here before the show.

    some comments/questions:

    .6V is not a lot of voltage, and would typically not be a problem in most circuits. The only issue I see with the graph is that you have these random transient voltage spikes that are not there on the right hand graph. The test instrument they used may not be sensitive enough to display the full magnitude of the voltage spikes (IE. They may be higher voltage than they appear, due to their very short nature). LEDs and LED driver boards can be sensitive to reverse polarity spikes as these stress their electronic components.

    Some questions:

    1-Did Toyota say exactly what failed? Was it the driver or the LEDs themselves?

    2-Is there a chance the heat from the HIDs baked the LEDs before you removed them (IE, they were already doomed to fail)?

    3-are you certain you go the polarity right when you assembled your various OEM interface connectors (IE are you powering you aftermarket lamps with the correct polarity?)

    4-do you have an aftermarket bumper or something else that might be causing your headlights to physically vibrate?
     
  20. Dec 11, 2019 at 6:54 PM
    #20
    MaHoTex

    MaHoTex Well-Known Member

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    Yes, .6V transient on the ground can cause problems.
    I would actually remove all the items and introduce them one at a time until the noise shows up. You can get a scope for cheap and you will probably use it again anyway. I saw the Picoscope image above and I have used those from some automated test equipment in the fairly recent past. While they are not the BEST, they would probably do what you need.

    When you "pull" them all you need to do is remove the power to the device. It is as simple as removing the fuses. (You did add fuses, right?)
     

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