1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Dual Battery Setups! Let's see them! Multiple Batteries Thread!

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by MJonaGS32, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Mar 25, 2017 at 5:43 AM
    #1521
    Iggy

    Iggy Vagabond Outdoors Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Member:
    #71971
    Messages:
    4,015
    Gender:
    Male
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    09 4x4 Off-Road Access Cab
    Check out the build
    This is the reason why I went with a 10K and really should have bought a 12K winch.

    A 10K winch pulling at 8K uses less amps than a 8K winch pulling at 8K.
     
  2. Mar 25, 2017 at 5:57 AM
    #1522
    DaveInDenver

    DaveInDenver Not Actually in Denver

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Member:
    #104390
    Messages:
    3,595
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    Grand Junction
    Vehicle:
    2008 Super White TRDOR AC 6MT
    Unexceptional
    Indeed. You can use a block and double line pulls to achieve it, too.

    Just looked, an M12000 pulling at 8000 lbs draws 312 amps compared to an M8000 at 8000 lbs which draws 435 amps and my XD9000 at 8000 lbs will draw 423 amps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
    jubei and Iggy like this.
  3. Mar 25, 2017 at 8:07 AM
    #1523
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    Awesome. I will have to double check the battery. I new it was over 12volts but checked it a couple weeks ago. Still have the warranty so not too worried if it is fubared.

    Happy to hear that I won't have to upgrade alternators right away. I feel that all my auxiliaries that I have hooked up to the starter aren't to large. (A few led lights which won't be running all the time if at all) and a winch (again only at certain times). So really it is just the fridge.

    Thanks again for the help!

    I was thinking the ctek dual250s but for $400 Canadien and another $350-400 for the smartpass to upgrade it just wasn't worth the price. The blue sea isn't a smart charger so I won't get the most optimal charge. However with the solar controller helping as well I think the bang for the buck will be sufficient.
     
  4. Mar 25, 2017 at 4:19 PM
    #1524
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    Alright I have searched and for the life of me I couldn't find the size of the fuses to run with the ml-acr.

    I will be having the second battery in the bed. Using 1/0 gauge for everything. Hoping to use in line fuses do to not having real estate for a breaker. What size fuses should I run?
     
  5. Mar 25, 2017 at 7:06 PM
    #1525
    DaveInDenver

    DaveInDenver Not Actually in Denver

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Member:
    #104390
    Messages:
    3,595
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    Grand Junction
    Vehicle:
    2008 Super White TRDOR AC 6MT
    Unexceptional
    The relay in the ML-ACR can handle 500A according to the specifications.

    You size fuses based on the wire size you intend to protect, which with 1/0 wire will be less then 500A. The current carrying rating of wire is based on the diameter, insulation type, temperatures. There's not really one single number.

    One rule-of-thumb chart that I think is realistic is this one:
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html

    It's for a 90 degree C melt temperature for the insulation, 30 degree C ambient temperature and I think based on a 600 second time at that current. So in other words, 200A on a 1/0 ga wire with insulation rated to 90C won't get quite hot enough in 10 minutes to melt through the insulation. Longer than that is unknown.

    So you would find a fuse or circuit breaker that opens at greater than 200 amps in 10 minutes or less.

    As an example, perhaps the marine fuses that Blue Sea sells, which are actually made by Bussman.

    https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/0/42/Marine Rated Battery Fuses

    You look at the curves, find the one that meets the current and time requirements.

    [​IMG]

    You read a fuse chart by selecting a fuse size, let's say 100A in this case. That is the rated value. You follow the line for that fuse along the time axis and read up the current axis to see when it will melt. This chart isn't the easiest to see, it's jumbled. But it looks like the 100A is the small dashed line with the round bubbles.

    It will carry 100A forever essentially, since 100% rated current isn't even shown. BTW, that's the key point I'd make, that fuses and breakers aren't rated based on protection point but carrying capability. A 100A fuses doesn't open at 100A.

    The first point looks to be between 100 and 200 seconds and would be about 125% of rated current, e.g. 125A. At 200% rated current (200A) a 100A it looks like it will melt in 3 seconds. At 300A the 100A fuse will melt at about 0.5 seconds. At 600A the 100A will melt in 0.1 seconds.

    This size fuse should protect a 1/0 AWG wire since it's curve shows it will open before the wire would experience potential damage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  6. Mar 26, 2017 at 12:07 PM
    #1526
    DaveEli

    DaveEli Well- Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Member:
    #72959
    Messages:
    1,999
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    David
    Virginia Beach
    Vehicle:
    2011 Tacoma Sport 4X4
    Icon Extended Travel Coilovers, King 700lb springs, All-Pro Expo leaf springs, All-pro U-Bolt flip kit, Icon 2.0 Series custom length rear shocks, Wheelers Superbump Bumpstops, All-Pro extended rear brake lines, Warn 86255 VR10000 10,000 lb winch, Warn 90287 wireless remote, Redline Hood Struts, AVS Bugflector II, Pelfreybilt front bumper with Rigid 92031 SR- Series White 20" Spot/Flood lightbar, Brute Force rear bumper with short swingarm, Famous Fabrication Rock Sliders, Pelfreybilt Skid Plates, Rigid 50231 D2 Driving Lights, Rigid 20221 Dually Spotlights, Rigid 98000 SR-M backup lights, ARB CKMTA12 "12V"on-board twin high performance air compressor, Dick Cepek DC-2 17x9" wheels, 285/70R17 Goodyear MTRs with Kevlar tires, Wet Okole seat covers,Airflow snorkle, ARE CX HD cap, Front Runner Slimline II cap rack, TRD cat back exhaust, AVS in channel window vents, Toyota door sill protectors, Pop & Lock tailgate lock, Husky Rear floorliners, WeatherTech Front Floorliners, DeeZee bed mat, Window tint, TRD drop in air filter, Plasmaglow led bed lights, Hi-Lift jack mounted on bed rail, IMMRYO Rear View Mirror Relocate, ARB 63 Quart fridge freezer, Arb ARB209 Snatch Block, ARB ARB730US 3" x 10' Tree saver, ARB ARB705US 2-3/8" x 30' recovery strap, Bubba Rope 7/8" x 30' original rope 28600 lbs, Bubba Rope Gator Jaw soft shackle 7/16.
    Yes the ML-ACR, i'm sticking with 2 optima yellow top 27f's. My starting battery is crap, I'll have a new one next week.
     
  7. Mar 26, 2017 at 12:09 PM
    #1527
    SOSHeloPilot

    SOSHeloPilot My 1st Muscle Car

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Member:
    #15422
    Messages:
    6,506
    Gender:
    Male
    U.S.A.
    Vehicle:
    2021 RAV4, XLE & 2020 C-HR
    Missing My Last Tacoma --- Had 12 Toyota trucks in the past and many other Toyota cars too.
  8. Mar 26, 2017 at 12:21 PM
    #1528
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    Great information. I guess a 100amp fuse is what I will go with.

    I guess I wanted to make sure that the size of fuse (100amps) will be sufficient with the blue sea ml acr unit. For instance if I wanted to jump the starting battery would a 100amp fuse be sufficient, or would 100amps be sufficient for the charging demands from the alternator?

    Perhaps the wire should be upgraded to make the most of the blue sea unit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  9. Mar 26, 2017 at 11:02 PM
    #1529
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    20,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 v6 Auto Trans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000K Driving Lights on the Bumper Mini D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4500K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Whynter 65 qt. Fridge/Freezer CVT Mt Bachelor RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack GM 140 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Doug Thorley Headers Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/upstream CAT delete 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines AFE Pro Dry S air filter ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    Wire size definitely plays a role in the 'jump start' scenario. The correct gauge is dependent on load/demand and also length of run.

    IMO, a standard 100 amp fuse or circuit breaker will be insufficient in the jump start scenario. One reason would be the starter can draw way more than 100 amps.
     
    abarber11 likes this.
  10. Mar 27, 2017 at 3:33 AM
    #1530
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    That's what I was thinking as well. However most people are using 1/0 gauge so I thought I would be safe there.

    i think are starters/alternators are 175 amps....forget though off hand.
     
  11. Mar 27, 2017 at 9:27 AM
    #1531
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    20,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 v6 Auto Trans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000K Driving Lights on the Bumper Mini D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4500K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Whynter 65 qt. Fridge/Freezer CVT Mt Bachelor RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack GM 140 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Doug Thorley Headers Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/upstream CAT delete 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines AFE Pro Dry S air filter ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    Where are you going to place your 2nd battery? How long are the wire runs (in feet) going to be? For the positive side, from the starting battery to the ML-ACR and from the 2nd battery to the ML-ACR? And for the ground side, from battery to battery?

    I think the starter will be much higher than that. I think I read that it could be a 300 amp draw.
     
  12. Mar 27, 2017 at 9:37 AM
    #1532
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    Going to the bed of the truck. 8-10 ft runs. Was going to ground the second battery at the frame but may go back to the engine compartment if need to so possibly 8-10 feet for each.

    I have read people have been successful with 200amps with this relay. Even scene this relay wired with no fuses as the runs are short. So really I'm starting to think only my run from the second battery should be fused as it's a long run.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  13. Mar 27, 2017 at 10:14 AM
    #1533
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    20,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 v6 Auto Trans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000K Driving Lights on the Bumper Mini D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4500K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Whynter 65 qt. Fridge/Freezer CVT Mt Bachelor RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack GM 140 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Doug Thorley Headers Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/upstream CAT delete 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines AFE Pro Dry S air filter ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    1/0 will be adequate for a run to the bed. On my 1st gen, that run was closer to 15 feet though and my 2nd battery is located on the driver's side front corner to make the run to the ML-ACR/starting battery as short as possible.

    FWIW, the ML-ACR isn't what needs protecting here. It is rated for 500 amps. Your alternator wont even come close to that and I doubt the starter will either. The purpose of a circuit breaker or a fuse it to protect that cable run.

    On my setup I put the CB within 12" of the 2nd battery on the positive cable. Instead of a fuse, I used this circuit breaker for its slow trip features. You'll note the chart BlueSea provides demonstrates that even though the CB is rated at 200 amps, it can withstand higher than that for a short amount of time before tripping. According to the chart this CB can withstand a 400 amp draw for 10 seconds before tripping. I figure, if a jump start scenario requires longer that 10 seconds at one burst, I probably have bigger issues.
     
    tacoma16 likes this.
  14. Mar 27, 2017 at 10:15 AM
    #1534
    twhalm

    twhalm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Member:
    #194983
    Messages:
    216
    Denver, CO
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD/OR Manual, OME , Dual battery
    I ran to the bed with a double cab for an aux fuse box and it ended up being almost 15'. Also good quality large gauge cable can get super expensive super quick, so keep that in mind.
     
    tacoma16 likes this.
  15. Mar 27, 2017 at 10:18 AM
    #1535
    twhalm

    twhalm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Member:
    #194983
    Messages:
    216
    Denver, CO
    Vehicle:
    2015 TRD/OR Manual, OME , Dual battery
    SonnyBones likes this.
  16. Mar 27, 2017 at 12:38 PM
    #1536
    Iggy

    Iggy Vagabond Outdoors Vendor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Member:
    #71971
    Messages:
    4,015
    Gender:
    Male
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    09 4x4 Off-Road Access Cab
    Check out the build
    In the MLACR instructions they advise not using a fuse if you intend to use the system for emergency starts.
     
  17. Mar 27, 2017 at 1:23 PM
    #1537
    Sandman614

    Sandman614 Snarky TWSS elf, Travis #hotsavannahdotcom, LRGRNR

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Member:
    #45273
    Messages:
    34,650
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tim
    Garner, NC/Boone, NC
    Vehicle:
    '06 SR5 Off Road
    ARB Front Bumper, Projector Headlights w/Slimcubby 4300K HID's, Oznium LED's, LED taillights, DIY Washable Cabin Moose Filter, Sockmonkey SR5 Off Road, Aux Audio plug, OME 886x, OME Nitrochargers, Wheelers 3 Leaf Progressive AAL, ImMrYo Rear-View Mirror Lift Bracket, Dodge D-Rings
  18. Mar 27, 2017 at 2:24 PM
    #1538
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4
    Fair enough. I may have to rethink my fuses. Was hoping to get away with anl fuses as they are cheaper than a breaker but may have to rethink that.

    My father in law gets me a decent price on welding cable. Can get 50ft of 1/0 welding cable for a decent price in Canadian dollars. About 10cents to you guys
    Got that covered above. Shit adds up quick though.
    Great information. I can understand why. Leaves me thinking if I'll ever use. Maybe I'll just by pass it if I have to self boost. Take out the fuse and go about it that way. Rather have the fuse instead of a fire.


    Thanks again guys for all the help.

    As of right now,
    -the ml-acr unit will either be in the engine bay (to not have to extend the switch) or in the bed if absolutely necessary
    -fuses will be put in. I will probably go with a 200 amp fuse (will double check the limits of the welding wire and the times) if the wire can handle 200 amps for 10 seconds the fuse should blow before it melts, but I'll drop it down to 150amp fuse to be more on the safe side...
    -will make the runs as short as possible to ensure decreased volatage drop, resistance and also money on cable even though I'll have 50ft to play with.
    -if needing to self boost I will remove the fuses (if needed-don't even know if they will blow at the moment) can monitor the system and determine if it's safe to do so with sizing of wire (based on what I'm hearing it is but fuses become the issue)
    -way to monitor charge.

    Missing anything?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  19. Mar 27, 2017 at 3:09 PM
    #1539
    Digiratus

    Digiratus Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Member:
    #34006
    Messages:
    20,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Mike
    Roaming the PNW
    Vehicle:
    The RedHead
    2002 XtraCab TRD 4x4 v6 Auto Trans With Lots of Mods ADS COs w/Compression Adjusters Camburg Uniball UCAs Whiteline Lower Control Arm Bushings Kartek 7" Limit Straps Plastics Guy Front Bumpstops Custom Alcan Springs +800 lbs +3" ADS 10" Stroke Triple Bypass w/Resi Rear Shocks Custom Rear Shock Relocate All-Pro U-bolt Flip w/Timbren Bumpstops 4.88 Nitro Gears ARB Front Locker ARB Twin Compressor Gunmetal 16x8 SCS Ray10s 255/85r16 Maxxis Bighorns Limited Edition (Relentless) Elite Front Bumper Smittybilt X2O 10K Winch Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport Selective Yellow Fog Lights in the Bumper Diode Dynamics SS3 Pro 4,000K Driving Lights on the Bumper Mini D2S Projectors XB35 Ballasts + 4500K Bulbs Badland Sliders FrankenFab Tire Carrier Swingout bumper w/kitchen BudBuilt Front & Bellypan Skids BAMF Rear Diff Skid Whynter 65 qt. Fridge/Freezer CVT Mt Bachelor RTT Badland Custom Bed Rack GM 140 amp alternator Dual Northstar 24F AGM batteries BlueSea 7622 ML-ACR Battery controller Peak DBI Dual Battery Voltage Monitor Doug Thorley Headers Magnaflow 18" Muffler w/upstream CAT delete 13WL Brake Calipers Braided Steel Brake Lines AFE Pro Dry S air filter ScanGauge II OBDII Scanner Kenwood TM-71A Dual Band Ham Radio Larson 70CM/2M Antenna Uniden 520xl CB radio 3' Firestik Adjustable tip antenna Pioneer DEH-P9400BH HU Alpine Amps & Type R components (F) and coaxials (R) Wet Okole Seat Covers Weathertech Digital Liners Deck Plate Mod 1" Diff Drop Carrier Bearing Drop
    You'll need a way to monitor that level of charge for each battery. There are many options for this. I am happy wit this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-LED-dou...cator-car-4WD-camper-/222376401987?rmvSB=true
     
  20. Mar 27, 2017 at 5:48 PM
    #1540
    tacoma16

    tacoma16 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Member:
    #53109
    Messages:
    8,717
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Peter
    Ontario
    Vehicle:
    Double cab SR5 4x4

Products Discussed in

To Top