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Electric Supercharger?

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by caglezxj, Aug 8, 2007.

  1. Aug 12, 2007 at 10:59 AM
    #21
    Mudbug

    Mudbug Well-Known Member

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    Amsoil 0w-20 engine oil and Amsoil Full synthetic 75w-90 in the Transmission, transfer case, front and rear Differentials. AFE Cold Air Intake
    Ok where did you get that idea from? 2lbs of boost doesn't neccesarily mean anything. If you take a T3 turbocharger and run 12psi on it and then you take a T4 turbocharger which is much larger and run 12psi on it your engine with the t4 is going to have a sizeable amount more hp. Boost is just the pressure. Its cfm's you need to calculate.
     
  2. Aug 14, 2007 at 5:18 AM
    #22
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    Thats funny....

    Apparently I made the laws of physics. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.7 PSI. This is what the HP in engines are rated at. In any combustion engine....apply 14.7 LBS of boost (true boost into the cylinders) then you double the HP assuming you match the fuel delivery. But alas....here is the one problem...creating boost creates heat...heat causes your octane ratings to rise and robs HP as the hotter air is less dense. So you loose a percentage of your HP to heat. That is why a T4 is more efficient. Also the in/out is larger causing less restriction as some boost is lost creating pressure in the system...that is why I said cylinder pressure for boost (must be read from inside the intake). If you put 2 lbs of boost from any application supercharger/turbo on a 238HP motor you will gain about 30HP...Period...end of story. (Assuming your application can deliver the fuel)

    * Note ---please read boost as applied manifold intake pressure/ not system pressure (sensors behind turbos or in the intake pipes)

    And how can you create 2lbs of boost inside a motor (a 13.7% increase in air) without increased CFM?
     
  3. Aug 14, 2007 at 5:22 AM
    #23
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    T3 turbocharger vs T4 turbocharger ...

    Also....its possible that your application is so restrictive on the exhaust side that you need the larger turbo just to force the air through giving larger HP gains as the smaller will create too much heat under the same boost levels.
     
  4. Aug 14, 2007 at 11:14 AM
    #24
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    Just doubling your air/fuel mixture does not double or even come close to doubling you HP. Otherwise everyone whould use the same size engine, but just be using different carbs. 14.7 lbs of boost on a stock engine will not even come close to doubling you HP.

    When you are calculating HP you use HP = Torque x Speed(rpm) /5252

    By doubling your air/fuel mixture you are not doubling your speed or torque.
     
  5. Aug 14, 2007 at 11:53 AM
    #25
    gdawg25

    gdawg25 Zoom-Zoom

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    Doubling your air/fuel would produce double the horse power, but only if the system was 100% efficient, and we all know nothing is 100% efficient in this perfect world of ours. Read more below - I got this from HowStuffWorks.com.

    Turbochargers allow an engine to burn more fuel and air by packing more into the existing cylinders. The typical boost provided by a turbocharger is 6 to 8 pounds per square inch (psi). Since normal atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi at sea level, you can see that you are getting about 50 percent more air into the engine. Therefore, you would expect to get 50 percent more power. It's not perfectly efficient, so you might get a 30- to 40-percent improvement instead.

    One cause of the inefficiency comes from the fact that the power to spin the turbine is not free. Having a turbine in the exhaust flow increases the restriction in the exhaust. This means that on the exhaust stroke, the engine has to push against a higher back-pressure. This subtracts a little bit of power from the cylinders that are firing at the same time.
     
  6. Aug 14, 2007 at 8:45 PM
    #26
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    I have worked on car, bike, boat, and small engines. I have yet to see an engine that was so far under tuned from the manufacturer that you could come any where near doubling you HP. Our engines, just like all of the rest ever made have a RPM limit. If it is not an electronic limiter, you will eventually float your valves at max RPM. Remember one of the two contributing factors in calculating HP is rpm. Every engine has a limit. You cannot just keep adding gas and air and expect you engine to keep gaining.

    As well I am surprised that Howstuffowrks.com would ever think that adding double the gas would double the RPM. If you graphed the gas consumption vs. rpm you would find that it is not linear. So by adding double the gas you will not add double the rpm or double the torque.

    As you run an engine at higher and higher rpm it gets hotter and hotter, and louder and louder. These all take away from its efficiency. You can keep putting more and more gas in it but you will get farther and farther away from your equation (double boost = double HP)
     
  7. Aug 15, 2007 at 11:53 AM
    #27
    gdawg25

    gdawg25 Zoom-Zoom

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    Dude, all they are saying is that if it was 100% efficient it would work that way. But an internal combustion engine isn't even close to being 100% efficient. There are so many variables that come into play. Oh and the Vancouver Canucks suck! Haha.
     
  8. Aug 16, 2007 at 6:23 AM
    #28
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    Exactly....my point was on our V6 if you want to make 30hp with a SC or turbo of any type you need 2lbs of boost no matter how you calculate it.
     
  9. Aug 16, 2007 at 3:53 PM
    #29
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    I think that you will need more than 2lbs of boost to make 30 hp.

    And yes the Canucks do suck, I wasted enough money on their tickets only to be dissapointed every time.
     
  10. Aug 17, 2007 at 5:13 AM
    #30
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    How do you figure that?

    (by the way Canada only has one hockey team...the LEAFS)
     
  11. Aug 17, 2007 at 11:16 AM
    #31
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    I think it will take more than 2 lbs of boost and so should you.

    YOU made an original calculation that adding 14.7lbs of boost would double HP. That is assuming 100% efficiency.

    YOU alreay said that no engine is 100% efficient.

    With your calculation of boost at 100% efficiency you get 16 HP per LB of boost.

    Now since you said that not engine is 100% efficient YOU for some reason only subtact 1 HP per LB of boost. This means you think your engine is 93% efficient. IT IS NOT!

    Nice calculations but you are off. If you have some secret new engine that reaches 93% efficiency, I want one, because no Tacoma comes with one.

    You will not get 30HP with 2lbs of boost.

    P.S. I had a friend whose parents beat him up so much that eventually Child Services took him away. Months later he had to go to court and tell the judge who he wanted to live with (ie. Aunt, Uncle, older Sister). His responce was very straight forward."
    Judge: "Son I know your parents beat you again and again, but you need to live somewhere, where do you want to go?"

    Friend:""I want to live with the Leafs they dont beat anyone!"
     
  12. Aug 17, 2007 at 11:43 AM
    #32
    gdawg25

    gdawg25 Zoom-Zoom

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    LOL!!! That's funny. The Leafs are one of my least favorite teams in the league...make that all of sports, right up there with the Yankees.
     
  13. Aug 17, 2007 at 1:51 PM
    #33
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    Well....let’s try again...the engines efficiency is already factored in as the calculation is based on current engine output. (238 HP) Remember that low boost levels heat and parasitic loss are very low but get worse as boost increases. I get 23 HP per LB of boost on my 5 liter mustang. Dynoed before and after.
    On a side note…. Lots of guys here have the URD supercharger and I believe it puts on 14HP per pound of boost on a Tacoma.
     
  14. Aug 17, 2007 at 1:55 PM
    #34
    4x4Taco

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    Better yet...dont believe me...do a search in google for a boost calculator...there are tons...some factor in loss...give some a try....maybe we are all wrong....what do I know from 20 years of dragracing and modding cars anyway.
     
  15. Aug 17, 2007 at 2:16 PM
    #35
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    Your right we could both be wrong. Oh well if everyone thought the same, life would be pretty boring.

    Well if anyone does try supercharging/turbocharging their Tacoma I would like to hear the results.
     
  16. Sep 25, 2007 at 4:25 PM
    #36
    350TacoZilla

    350TacoZilla Well-Known Member

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  17. Sep 25, 2007 at 5:32 PM
    #37
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    A supercharger runs off your engine, so it gets better with speed.
    A turbocharger runs off your exhaust, so it gets better with speed.

    An electric supercharger runs off of a battery, so it would only work efficiently at one rpm. This does not work.
     
  18. Sep 25, 2007 at 6:26 PM
    #38
    350TacoZilla

    350TacoZilla Well-Known Member

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    anything that forces air into the motor will work...your theory would mean that a supercharger on a truck in 1st gear at 5000rpm work but on the same truck 5th gear 2000rpm it wouldnt work
     
  19. Sep 25, 2007 at 8:59 PM
    #39
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    You are talking about gearing, I am talking about an engine. They are different. This might help you.

    An engine in first gear at 5000rpm fires twice as much as when it is going 2500rpm. Therefore it needs approx. twice as much air.

    An engine in 5th gear at 5000rpm fires just as much as the first engine in first gear. It therefore needs an equal amount of air.

    A supercharger that is constantly forcing the same amount of air into an engine might make some HP at a particular rpm, but it would hurt the engine at higher or lower rpm because it would be restricting the air or forcing too much into it.
     
  20. Sep 26, 2007 at 5:40 PM
    #40
    350TacoZilla

    350TacoZilla Well-Known Member

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    oh I'm not saying this thing is like a real super charger.because your right on the fact that the higher the rpm the more air needed...but this is only able to make a certain amount no matter what.....or else I wouldnt be getting parts together for that alpine kit... I'm just saying if it does in fact make real boost (even 3 psi) then it would add power... sure it may only be 25 like what i saw but thats still more than without it...still though gotta give credit for it being more than a bildge pump in your intake you know
     
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