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Enough Already! Your Truck's T, HP and RPM Explained

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016+)' started by hiPSI, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. Jul 15, 2020 at 9:56 AM
    #521
    RX1cobra

    RX1cobra Well-Known Member

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    Don't think its a lack of power its where its made. Most engines in trucks are the opposite of ours. Designed for low end power and run out of steam up top. We need to rev ours to the moon to get decent power and thus the complaints of power and trans shifting all the time.
     
  2. Jul 15, 2020 at 10:12 AM
    #522
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    I get the earlier calibration comment. I wouldnt mind driving 16-17, so i can understand how it feels like. I really dont mind the stock tune at all, that untill i drive tony's taco, ha!

    I can see how some 16-17 MT drivers might not be happy, but when i see 18 and up complaining about no power or no torque, it seems a bit funny to me. A lot of guys say no torque below 3500? Ha, you kidding me?
    I tried so many times to undersrand this complaint, i would drive on hills at 2000-2500 and it doesnt struggle at all. I press the pedal a bit, it goes, i press it more, it goes quicker, i floor it and it goes really fast.

    I use my second gear all the time in the parking lots and slow speed driving, no pinging or engine lugging. If my wheels are rolling forward, even the slightest, 2nd gear.

    I wasnt on tacoma world when i bought my truck and i honestly thought it drove great. Except for a spongy clutch pedal, which i thought it was just new clutch, since i have never bought a brand new vehicle. The other thing i noticed was slow pedal response.

    Then i started reading TW and thanks to ADM thread i realized why the clutch felt weird. Did the ADM, wow what a difference. Then i got the latest toyota tune for the 18, drove even better. Do i have just low expectations? Maybe. But i am pretty anal and ocd about how my MT vehicle should perform. I feel very confident driving my truck in traffic or highway, it responds quickly and has good power. A lot of times i need to tell myself to slow the fk down, before i get a ticket. BC is very strict when it comes to speeding.
     
  3. Jul 15, 2020 at 10:27 AM
    #523
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    I dont need to rev it to the moon at all to get the power. I shift 2300-2500 normal driving. All engines make peak tq and hp at high rpm, 3.5.is not an exception. For example, look at how high in the rpm range 4.8 vortec's peak hp and tq is achieved. Pretty much same rpms as 3.5. Completely disagree that most truck engines are designed the opposite. Doesels, yes. My 4.0 ranger made peak tq at 4200 and peak hp at 5000, strange right.

    Look up v8 engines peak hp and torque and you will see.

    Edit: FYI i attached numbers from a 5.7 hemi. Peak tq at 4400 rpm?! How strange.

    Guys just repeat the same shit on TW, how this 3.5 needs all that high rpm to make power. Bullshit.

    Screenshot_20200715-103402_Samsung Internet.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  4. Jul 15, 2020 at 11:25 AM
    #524
    RX1cobra

    RX1cobra Well-Known Member

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    Look at at the area below the peak. Your graph for the 5.7 has it making more tq at 1000 RPM than we make it peak. Our engine is soft on the bottom end. It doesn't make over 200 ft pounds of TQ (at the tires) until about 3700 RPM. At 3000 RPM its making a whopping 165 ft pounds. Real stump puller we got.

    It makes enough to get by but needs to be revved to make power.

    dyno result.jpg
     
  5. Jul 15, 2020 at 1:07 PM
    #525
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    I can see it in the 5.7 graph, not sure how accurate it is though, as i pulled up the first one in google.

    Of course a v8 will make more torque down low, no question about that. Im not sure about your graph, as i have seen dyno charts from 3.5 on here and it showed it made 80% of its torque at around 2k rpm. It sure feels like it to me, Ill try to find it.

    My work van with 4.8 vortec operates 150-200 rpm less than my taco on the same roads with normal driving. If you want that chevy to go fast, you have to let it sing, just like the taco. Thats why i find it a bit funny when guys say that they need to wind up the 3.5 to go fast. Well no shit, you need to get the rpms up of the v8 engine to go fast too. Maybe not as much, but still.

    I mean v6s in pick ups are not known to be super torquey down low, but imo the 3.5 in the taco has enough. Maybe because my truck came with 4.30 rear end stock? Probably thats the reason it drives fine to me. I rarely have to go over 3k going up hills, and we have some crazy hills here, never for a second i though i need more torque to make it up those hills. I did drive buddies AT off road with 3.90 gears, and it drove just fine. Mind you, it was like a 10 min drive.

    Like i said, maybe i just have low expectations, or i just got lucky with my truck, or is it because of the 4.30 rear end stock. Maybe its all of the above.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
    hiPSI [OP] likes this.
  6. Jul 15, 2020 at 2:19 PM
    #526
    RX1cobra

    RX1cobra Well-Known Member

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    That graph was from OV Tune thread. I assume if they posted it was legit. Everyone has different expectations. The gearing certainly helps the manuals I'd assume to feel like they have more TQ. I came from a 3.5 ecoboost and that's probably why it was such a shock for me. I knew what I was getting into, and still like my truck, but its weak down low. I don't understand how anyone can feel different about that but again we all have different expectations and experience.
     
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  7. Jul 15, 2020 at 2:23 PM
    #527
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    You should have told me you came from a 3.5 eco haha! Man, compared to that, taco is nothing. But you cant really compare them two, not fair.

    I came from a 2007 ranger with 4.0, so this tacoma felt like a rocketship when i drove it.
     
  8. Jul 15, 2020 at 2:31 PM
    #528
    DefinitelyThor

    DefinitelyThor Well-Known Member

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    what if we already have a race car too? on the bright side i get to send this to all my friends who think i murder motors bc i have a "talent" for driving at red line
     
  9. Jul 15, 2020 at 3:05 PM
    #529
    Marshall R

    Marshall R Well-Known Member

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    A lot of guys today have no real point of reference. Granted, I haven't driven a 3rd gen, but needing 4600 rpm to get max torque isn't something that sounds like a good idea to me. Especially with a manual transmission trying to maneuver a trailer at low speed. The torque converter of an automatic transmission really helps offset the lack of torque down low. Modern engines in virtually all trucks are designed to work with an automatic transmission.

    The 2nd gens, and to be fair most other modern gas engines are developing torque at about 3500 rpm. Which admittedly isn't much better. There is a reason they don't put manual transmissions in trucks any longer that are intended to tow.

    Ford's turbo engines have made a big difference offering max tow down in the 2500-2700 rpm range. That is low enough to make a noticeable difference. Most diesel engines are getting their torque in the 1500-1700 rpm range. Even many of the old school gas engines were in the 1500-2000 rpm range.

    The difference between needing 4600 rpm on a 3rd gen and the 3500 rpm of 2nd gens isn't earth shattering, but it is real. Especially when it comes to towing. If you've ever driven a truck that got it's rpm down in the 1500-2000 rpm range you'll start to understand what you're missing out on.
     
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  10. Jul 15, 2020 at 3:14 PM
    #530
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    4.0L tacoma engine makes peak torque at 4000 rpm. So 600 rpm difference, not a lot if you ask me. The 3.5 has 41 hp more though, quite a bit more.

    I completely agree on the torque converter helping with towing. Its great for torque multiplication at low speed. I had to get 2WD low mod to be able to back up trailers or use my truck on the boat launches, without destroying my clutch. Also, tacoma wasnt really designed to be a tow vehicle. Sure it can tow, but if you are towing heavy loads, taco is the wrong vehicle for that.

    Other than that, imo the 3.5 with the 6 spd is an amazing combo. Tons of fun.
     
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  11. Jul 15, 2020 at 3:24 PM
    #531
    DefinitelyThor

    DefinitelyThor Well-Known Member

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    for sure, the other weird thing is the gears are really generous, i can go 20+ mph in 1st so trying to get it that high already has you moving a bit. but i recommend everyone try and finesse it at redline when they drive or even put it one to two gears lower than they think for a day bc it pulls, at 5000 or so rpm(it just go and use your low range once in your life)
     
  12. Jul 15, 2020 at 4:13 PM
    #532
    Mrtacoman88

    Mrtacoman88 TRDude

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    Are you suggesting MT drivers should try to drive in 4lo at 5k rpm? Or i read it wrong?
     
  13. Jul 15, 2020 at 4:34 PM
    #533
    DefinitelyThor

    DefinitelyThor Well-Known Member

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    telling auto drivers to so they will stfu about it not having any power like one of my friends did so i had him keep it high rpm and it does a lot better, but if you are trying to drive it hard i would keep it in that range, otherwise do what you want, taco gears are just wack
     
  14. Jul 28, 2020 at 9:24 PM
    #534
    r3dt4rget

    r3dt4rget Member

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    I've owned my 2020 v6 AT for 3 months now and I'm glad I finally read through this thread. I'm coming from a Prius and a 92 chevy 1500 v6. I'm used to having no power and needing to rev. I love the 3.5 in the tacoma. Sounds really great, it's pretty fast for what it is, and just puts a smile on my face each time I accelerate from a stop. But, I stay in ECT mode. ECT mode is what should be normal. Normal mode is a disaster. I've read through the replies here about Toyota fixing the issues but with the AT, no, they haven't fixed the issues I've read about and also experienced myself. I still have less than 3k miles on mine so I was under the impression more break-in time would help. Or that the ECU was still learning my driving. And then I read this thread and it seems like a lot of people acknowledge the issues.

    To me the problem is all in the driving mode programming. ECT mode is perfect. Good throttle response, higher shift points, no 1-2k RPM shuddering, etc. You can still get optimal MPG in ECT mode. You have to be an efficient driver, but you can still get the same MPG's. I just don't understand why after 4 years of 3rd gen we still have the same issue in normal mode. Here is how my daily commute goes in normal mode:

    1. Pull out of driveway, head down my street which is a bit downhill but mostly flat. No issues. The truck wants to keep the RPM's in the 1-2k range which is best for MPG's. Since it's a residential street that is flat/downhill I have no issues.

    2. At end end of my street I turn onto a 2 lane highway with a speed limit of 55. There is a long swooping hill I have to climb. Gentle grade, maybe only 300 ft of elevation gain but it's a steady hill. This is where the trouble is. In normal mode if I drive it like a person who has ever driven any car you give it ample throttle because I have to go from 0-60 and up a hill. Well, ECU want's me below 2000 rpm. 1-3 usually no problem. Then 4th. It should stay in 4th longer and hit 3-3.5k RPM but instead it shifts to 5th quickly, trying to keep RPM's low. I lose most torque, and I bog down. Mind you, I'm not moving the throttle during this time. Just wanting the truck to accelerate. Still have a lot of throttle. Anyway, it bogs down for a second, ECU downshifts back to 4th and finally it lets it rev because I guess it realizes I'm not letting off the throttle. By this point I'm about halfway up this long hill and up to 50-55mph and it goes to 5th after I ease off the throttle a bit because I'm reaching my desired speed. 6th comes quickly after as I crest the hill and back of throttle even more.

    3. I drive through about 10 miles of easy grade rolling hills. On most hills I'm downshifting to 5th to maintain 60 mph. Not really a big deal to me. In 6th at 60mph you aren't turning a lot of RPM's so I understand it needing to downshift. It does so quickly and predictably with just slight blip in the throttle. I've learned to drive it to where it's smooth and effortless in this part of my drive.

    4. After those 10 miles I make it to town and back to 35-45mph roads. A bit of stop and go city driving. Again, this is where the trouble is if I encounter any type of hill. It just want's to throw you into the higher gear when you hit 2-2.5k rpm. Sometimes I just yell at it, "Don't you see this hill?!? Why did you upshift just let me stretch the tach a little!" Again, after a couple seconds of bogging down after the upshift it downshifts and lets me get some more rpms. It's the opposite of a smooth experience. Nobody should have to go 1-2-3-2-3-4-5-6. No car with an AT I've ever driven has had this issue.

    And the issue goes away when you press that little ECT button. That's how I know it's not an engine or transmission problem. It has nothing to do with how much HP or torque or the gears or any of that. It's just the ECU is forcing shifts at inappropriate times resulting in unexpected drops in power during normal driving situations. It's not hunting for gears. There aren't too many gears. It just shifts too damn soon even under moderate acceleration. If you give it 3/4 throttle it shouldn't upshift at 2.5krpm. But that's what it does. ECT fixes this for me.
     
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  15. Aug 6, 2020 at 3:52 AM
    #535
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Can you expand on the 2LO switch? I love driving the 3.5 with a MT, only issue I have is pulling my 22 ft pontoon boat out of the water. It physically cant do it in 2HI as it just burns up the clutch. I have to switch to 4LO, which is fine until I have to make a turn and the front wheels start skipping on the pavement. 2LO would be perfect for this scenario.
     
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  16. Aug 6, 2020 at 4:34 AM
    #536
    Pablo8

    Pablo8 Juan Fresh Taco

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    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2lo-plug-play-harness-discussion.592035/
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...-2wd-low-range-for-the-3rd-gen-tacoma.614743/

    Works as described.

    OPERATION OF 2-LO SWITCH



    1. Push the button. (on WITH RED LIGHT)
    2. Clutch in. Move selector to 4Hi and wait for it to engage.
    3. Clutch in. Move selector to 4Lo and wait for it to engage.
    4. You are in 2WD low range.
    5. Push the button again. (off)
    6. Clutch in. Shift to 4Hi, then to 2Hi and wait for everything to disengage.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020 at 4:56 AM
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  17. Aug 6, 2020 at 5:32 AM
    #537
    Mojo Jojo

    Mojo Jojo Well-Known Member

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    This is awesome, I had no idea this was out there! Have you installed one of these wiring harnesses on your rig? Any issues with it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020 at 8:50 AM
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  18. Aug 6, 2020 at 5:42 AM
    #538
    Pablo8

    Pablo8 Juan Fresh Taco

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    Yes installed. No issues at all in use - other than forgetting the order of things! I tend to go to the 4XHiLo dial switch BEFORE the button - OOPS!! If you forget, it just errors out on the display. Power truck off and on and error clears. So just remember PUSH BUTTON FIRST - THEN 4XHiLo dial switch in or out
     
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  19. Aug 6, 2020 at 8:02 AM
    #539
    mchertel

    mchertel Well-Known Member

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    I have a 3.5 Eco 2016 Ford Explorer and of course after driving that & the Honda Goldwing the Taco felt a bit sluggish when I bought it in May. I drive in the mountains in Colorado often and using the ECT and "s" mode keeping the RPM's up it does just fine. The torque converter fluid temp reaches around 215 degrees but cools off quickly as well when cruising downhill. What goes up must come down!!
     

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