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Event Data Recorder (EDR aka Black Box)

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by TheMaster, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Oct 31, 2006 at 8:40 AM
    #1
    TheMaster

    TheMaster [OP] Born to Ride Staff Member

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    EDR’s are factory installed by some auto manufactures but owners of these vehicles are usually unaware that such a thing exists. In the case of an accident, the Police and our beloved Insurance Companies down load information form the EDR to determine the vehicles speed and other available data to reconstruct the accident, determine liability and for finger pointing :eek: purposes. Yes, this knife cuts both ways. It can save your buttocks too.:D The point is to determine if our Taco’s have them and what can be done to prevent authorities from obtaining this information without the owners consent. The other points of interest are;
    1) Can it be disconnected and what are the implications and/or disadvantages.
    2) Can the data be wiped quickly so it cannot be used to prosecute its owner?
    3) Are there laws governing EDR and/or its removal.
    4) :confused: Etc Etc…….
     
  2. Nov 10, 2006 at 2:55 PM
    #2
    Truck champion

    Truck champion Active Member

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    As far as we know Toyota denies having EDRs on their vehicles. Our Technicians know nothing about the presence or abcense of EDRs on Toyotas but do know some things about the ones that exist on other brands. One, they can only be accessed by factory personell. Not dealership techs, police, or insurance companies. Two they would only be accessed in severe cases. I.E. someone dies. Usually a good traffic investigator can figure this out without need for an EDR. This means that if there was a legitimate malfunction on your vehicle an EDR will point it out saving your but but if you messed up, the EDR will probably not be needed to point that out. Better off concerning yourself with things you have controll over. Seatbelts how well your truck is maintained, good tires and brakes knowing the limits of your truck and keeping your head on straight. Baisicly paitience for things you have no control over the strength to deal with the things you have control over and the wisdom to tell the difference. Hope this helps.
     
  3. Nov 10, 2006 at 5:38 PM
    #3
    ForeRunner

    ForeRunner BBC. Bring Back Clarkson Staff Member

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    No they don't, the 2005+ Tacomas are equiped with a EDR that will store the last 20 seconds of information preceding a incident (meaning it constantly records but only 20 seconds worth is retained)

    Do you work in a Toyota service center? If so your techs might want to read a couple of owners manuals.
    As far as I know the Police do have access to the EDR's in vehicles which as far as I'm concerned they have my blessing. Case in point.
     
  4. Nov 11, 2006 at 2:19 AM
    #4
    TheMaster

    TheMaster [OP] Born to Ride Staff Member

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    Now we're talking. :D :D :D
     
  5. Nov 15, 2006 at 10:08 AM
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    MapMasterG

    MapMasterG Active Member

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    I was reading through the owners manual for my new '06 Taco Double-Cab a few days ago and came accross a section about EDR's, So Toyota definately acknowleges that they are installed...at least in the 06's. I would get the page number in the manual for you, but I'm at work...and should be working right now.;)
     
  6. Nov 15, 2006 at 11:13 AM
    #6
    archer of loaf

    archer of loaf Well-Known Member

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    damn now the man is spying on all of us. lol. all new cars have these i believe. i know in canada the data from them can be used in court too!
     
  7. Nov 15, 2006 at 11:39 AM
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    TheMaster

    TheMaster [OP] Born to Ride Staff Member

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    I believe it’s safe to assume that all vehicles equipped with air bags would also have an EDR. It was initially installed (in the 90’s) to determine the conditions (speed and brake force) under which the air bag deployed so the auto manufacturers could use this info to tweak the safeties.
     
  8. Nov 15, 2006 at 4:36 PM
    #8
    Ldytaco05

    Ldytaco05 it's all about me

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    this is great info hmm this could be good or bad. nevertheless, big brother is watching. oh well this could help us in our accident court cases. but in what detail does it record?
     
  9. Nov 15, 2006 at 6:13 PM
    #9
    archer of loaf

    archer of loaf Well-Known Member

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    it does things as speed, breaking, seat belt worn.
     
  10. Nov 15, 2006 at 7:55 PM
    #10
    TheMaster

    TheMaster [OP] Born to Ride Staff Member

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    Good question. Here we go;

    The SRS air bag sensor assembly contains the EDR. In a crash or near crash event, this device may record some or all of the following information;

    Engine speed,
    Whether the brake pedal was applied or not,
    Vehicle speed,
    To what extent the accelerator was depressed,
    Position of transmission selector lever,
    Whether the driver and front passenger wore seat belts,
    Drivers seat position,
    Front passenger’s occupant classification,
    SRS airbag deployment data, and the list goes on…..

    Toyota will share the data with police; use it to defend themselves in a law suit etc.

    I am determined to find a way to zap the device with a high current capacitor or another method to wipe the data, when necessary. I’m a responsible driver but I’m not happy with the fact that a third party can extract information from an investment we made, in order to prosecute us. That is similar to my Doberman Pincer that I’ve fed, protected and cared for, turn on me. It is unacceptable. In other words, we have invested a substantial amount of money so Toyota, the Insurance companies and Law enforcement agencies can pull your pants down, bend you over and humiliate you in public. Ladies and gentlemen, choose to enjoy or protect yourself. I have opted for the latter.

    I appreciate and respect Banshee’s comments on this thread however, I mentioned this knife cuts both ways. The primary message is that it's unacceptable for one to bite that hand that feed it. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Nov 22, 2006 at 12:05 PM
    #11
    TacoKing

    TacoKing Active Member

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    Wow. I am amazed at some of the postings in this thread. This EDR is good for "good" guys and bad for "bad" guys. If you obey the laws (within reason) then you should have NOTHING to worry about. It will most likely benefit you. However, if you drive like a bat out of hell and hurt or kill someone then yes, this information will work against you because most likely, the person at fault will lie through their teeth. So, for those of you who wish to wipe it clean if in an accident (assuming your at fault), you must plan on lying. Otherwise why would you want to wipe it clean? Look, I mess around like anyone else (just traded in my Ford Cobra for my 06 Taco Dcab 4x4 TRD Off Road, so I do hit the pedal at times) but it's within reason. If in an accident and am at fault, which has happened once, I come clean - even though it was my word against hers. These boxes are for extreme cases and if you injure, mame or worse yet, kill someone and then want to hurry up and slick your EDR you shouldn't be allowed on the road. You say "Big Brother" as if it is something negative. There is no wizard behind a curtain watching everything, this is done for our benefit. I personally don't feel it crosses any lines as it determines speed, gear, seat position, yada, yada all that which is generally utilized in a horrific accident on PUBLIC roads. If your wife and three kids or your parents and all of your siblings were killed due to a T-bone at a 150mph by a couple of teenagers who later lied...I think you would think twice about admission of EDR data. Okay, I am climbing down from the pedastal. Happy Holidays all and for God's sake, drive safe....it's being recorded!
     
  12. Nov 22, 2006 at 1:52 PM
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    Truck champion

    Truck champion Active Member

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    O.K. First I would like to say that the "Case in point" was a murder case!!!! and I assure you that the cop on the street did not fish out the data. It was a crime scene specialist with specialized training. I have first hand knowledge of the Law enforcement industry and assure you that most cops don't know how to use a "smart key" let alone have the ability to access and download EDR info. And I think I echo (no toyota pun intended)the others in this forum when I say that If you want to access and wipe memories then you have no business on the road. Go build your own vehicle and run it with Carburators and deal with those restrictions on your life. I think that if you kill some one then all the evidence your vehicle will provide, like skid marks or lack there of, paint rubs, broken bulbs, impact marks, and yes even black boxes should be available. IF YOU WANT PRIVACY SURRENDER YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE RIDE THE BUS AND STAY OFF THE PUBLIC ROADS!!!! DRIVING IS NOT A RIGHT. IT IS A PRIVELIGE. We paid for those roads and if you kill any one I know by being stupid then.............. well you can fill in the blank with your own creative imagination. :rolleyes: The dog analogy is a great one. I have never had a dog that I treated with respect bite me. Agan I say If you are a responsible human being than there is nothing to wory about. But if you kick the dog that you feed then expect to get big, mean, nasty, gangreenous and well deserved bite.
     
  13. Nov 26, 2006 at 7:31 AM
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    PRS

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    I just saw "news" magazine piece about EDRs. The talking head said the Owner's Manual must list the device in the index if the vehicle is so equipped, she said to look under "EDR" or "Electronic Data Recorder". My VOM lists neigher in the index and a brief flip scan thorugh the pages did not meet with sucess with my tired old eyes. Driving '06 model. Can someone post page numbers?

    I often run a Garmin 2730 GPS and it, too, may hold potentially incrimminationg evidence. It holds vechicle track log, top speed, average speed, etc, Not usre if it has an occult chip that records such things real time or not. Uncle Sugar is watching.

    Now lets say you are in a wreck and you are being pointed out as being at fault and there is a severe injury or death. Lets say you have disabled or with a highly charged capacitor have zapped the EDR. Your act in doing so is very self incrimminating; "you in 'a heep 'o trouble, boy!" And, lets further suppose you were an innicent victom in this wreck, but the circumstances are against you, that danged "black box" could'a shown your speed and braking to be consistent with your reported account of the wreck and helped your otherwise poor case.

    Still; I am old school and do not like Big Brother 'a peep'n into my affairs all the time.

    prs
     
  14. Nov 26, 2006 at 8:20 AM
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    ForeRunner

    ForeRunner BBC. Bring Back Clarkson Staff Member

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    In my '05 manual it is on page IV, pretty much the fourth page into the manual.

    Hope it helps.
     
  15. Jan 6, 2007 at 7:25 AM
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    TheMaster

    TheMaster [OP] Born to Ride Staff Member

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  16. Jan 12, 2007 at 5:22 AM
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    sunruner19

    sunruner19 Senior Senile Member

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    I think you all should read George Orwell's book 1984
    this was written way back in the late 30's i beleive and he described a society that we live in now. Kinda scary.
     
  17. Feb 4, 2007 at 9:44 AM
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    A2Mich

    A2Mich Well-Known Member

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    1984...great book, amazing how true some of George Orwell's predictions are. Actually, that book was written in 1948, he transposed the last two numbers on the publishing year and came up with the title 1984. But anyway, I don't believe that EDR's are "Big Brother" devices. EDR's are limited by law to what information they can record...as mentioned previously, vehicle speed, braking, seat belt use, air bag deployment, etc. If these were indeed "Big Brother" devices, they would be recording audio, video, location, etc, and be transmitting it back to the NSA and you would be monitored 24/7. These devices only record relevant vehicle data at the time of and just before a collision. If you wear your seat belt, drive within the law, and do yuor best to avoid an accident, you have nothing to worry about. Now if somebody finds microphones, video cameras, GPS transponders, etc hidden in their vehicle's, then we need to revisit the Big Brother ideal. Just think how many cell phones have GPS capability.....guess we need to throw away our phones now too. My work truck has a GPS transponder and my boss can check on his computer and find out exactly where my work truck is! Do I think it's an invasion of privacy? No, because I am where I'm supposed to be, besides, employers have the right (within reason) to monitor their employees. Bottom line is that these EDR's do not record personal information, location, or anything that really might be incriminating. But again, if you're obeying the law, you don't need to worry. Most of the time when EDR info is downloaded, it's because the consumer is blaming the carmaker for the air bags not deploying, etc. The downloaded info can be compared to the manufacturer's specs for airbag deployment, etc, to prove that the airbag should not have gone off, and can be used the other way too, that an airbag should have deployed, etc. But in either case, nobody is spying on you through your airbag module....we need to worry more about cell phones, the internet, and maybe cable/satellite TV companies more than Toyota.......
     
  18. Feb 5, 2007 at 12:17 AM
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    greatone007

    greatone007 Member

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    Are You sure Big Brother is not watching............
     
  19. Feb 5, 2007 at 2:38 AM
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    sunruner19

    sunruner19 Senior Senile Member

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    i beleive the original Big Brother was Santa Clause, "so you better watch out. you better be good, etc"

    Lets not get too paranoid, we should be quite used to being watched by now. I have to go with what A2 MICH said in this thread as related to the Black Box. Its just that, and nothing more.

    And now the usual disclosure that the govt (big brother and big sister, lets not forget her either) forces me to make here:
    I swear to the best of my knowledge that there is no hidden mics, cameras, virus's, or any other devices, such as hidden dots that contain electronic 2way neurons etc contained, delivered, or otherwise transmitted in this reply message.

    Just enjoy 4 wheelin n tread litely, k
     
  20. Feb 7, 2007 at 7:58 PM
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    Truck champion

    Truck champion Active Member

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    Yes you will find a non-threatening disclaimer on EDRs in the Tacoma manual on page IV and what great replies. Hey wher did you get that Sport hood on your regularn cab Taco?
     
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