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Factory "beep" alarm integration

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by ProForce, May 28, 2012.

  1. May 28, 2012 at 9:24 PM
    #1
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    OK guys, I have tons of experience in 12v electrical, but cant seem to figure this out. Any help would be appreciated. Many people hate the oem lock/unlock "beep" but i happen to really like it. I have an 09 DCSB TRD Sport.

    My first mod after purchase 3 years ago was a new alarm. I installed the DEI Viper 5901 Remote Start w/ Security and used the standard siren that came with the aftermarket alarm. I did not have any factory security system installed. I dont remember if I connected the factory alarm arm/disarm wires during the installation, and I am not sure if that even makes a difference anyways. This is what I am trying to accomplish: Currently When I press lock/unlock on the Viper remote, I get the chirp that comes from the alarm siren. I never hear the factory beep at all. IF I use the factory remote, then I will get the beep, but this does not arm/disarm the alarm, only locks/unlocks the doors. I have never used the factory remote since installing the alarm. What I want is to make it so that when arming/disarming the Viper alarm, I want the factory beep, not the aftermarket chirp. Then, if the alarm is triggered, I want the aftermarket siren and no beep.

    This is what I know so far: The factory piezo that has the beep has 2 wires, one red and the other yellow/black i believe. If I disconnect the harness from the piezo and test each wire, the yellow/black shows ground and the red reads nothing at all. When lock/unlock is pressed and the beep should sound, the red wire shows a quick 9-12v pulse and yellow/black does not change. If you connect the harness back in and test the wires again, both show ground. With the harness still plugged in and the beep triggered, both show a 9-12v pulse. So far this seems a pretty straight forward positive/negative circuit.

    Here is where it gets confusing... If I manually apply 12v to the red wire with the harness plugged in, nothing happens except a small tick sound from the piezzo, almost like the sound of a fuse popping. If I unplug the harness and manually apply ground to the yellow/black pin of the piezo and 12v to the red pin of the piezo, still nothing happens! I am lost!! Something is not so simple about this little piezo circuit. I tried applying 9v, still the same result. I cant manually trigger the beep. My first question is how do I get this piezo to beep :confused: If I can figure this out, Im sure I can wire the alarm somehow to get it to work the way I want. I can program the alarm to sound the aftermarket siren "on full alarm only" and then somehow use a different wire from the alarm to trigger the beep. Assuming the factory alarm arm/disarm wires were NOT connected, would connecting them solve my problem? If the are already connected, what am I missing??

    Hope I explained this well enough for someone to help. I have installed alarms for years and know a lot about 12v electrical, but this has got me baffled. Thanks in advance for your guys' help!!
     
  2. May 29, 2012 at 2:02 PM
    #2
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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  3. Jun 3, 2012 at 12:15 PM
    #3
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    Really need help! Anyone?
     
  4. Jun 3, 2012 at 12:21 PM
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    mcdowell

    mcdowell My name is Mudd

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    I would love to help but ima s s s stupid.
     
  5. Jun 3, 2012 at 12:28 PM
    #5
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    It's all good. Thanks anyways
     
  6. Jun 11, 2012 at 8:42 AM
    #6
    CrutchfieldDarren

    CrutchfieldDarren Well-Known Member Vendor

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    I have actually integrated with one of the factory piezo before. Seems like it is simply a 12v trigger to the piezo best I remember. I used the (-) horn output with a relay to convert to (+) 12v pulse.

    You should be able to ground one side of the piezo and quickly pulse (+) 12v on the other side, and it should chirp. The key is a quick pulse. Maybe applying 12v for too long is not allowing the chirp?

    In going to do some research on this when I get to work at 4. I'll have access to some more resources.

    We should be able to make this work.
     
  7. Jun 11, 2012 at 8:45 AM
    #7
    CrutchfieldDarren

    CrutchfieldDarren Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Oh forgot to mention, the factory arm/disarm wires will not cue the piezo to chirp, only the factory keyless module can do that.

    That's why you have to trigger it manually.

    I'll let you know what I find out.
     
  8. Jun 11, 2012 at 1:33 PM
    #8
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    Thank you! I've been stumped by this! Maybe the very quick pulse is what I am doing wrong. Every test I do leads me to believe that the piezo runs off a normal +/- circuit but when applying +/- manually, nothing happens. Maybe I need to apply a short pulse. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I was thinking to use the pulse from the lock/unlock wires to trigger the piezo, because if I use the brown wire (siren) from the alarm then it will work great until the alarm is triggered then I get just a really long beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep from the piezo as the alarm (assuming it works without just short pulses) then I can program the siren wire to turn off lock/unlock chirps so the alarm siren only goes off for warn and full trigger. Then the horn wire is also connected and already programmed for full alarm only. Hope this helps too. Thanks again!
     
  9. Jun 15, 2012 at 7:33 AM
    #9
    CrutchfieldDarren

    CrutchfieldDarren Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Hey ProForce,

    Here is what I found out.

    There should be two wires at the piezo as you mentioned. The white/black is a chassis ground wire that rests at ground at all times. The red wire is the factory trigger wire. It sends a (+) 12v pulse to activate the piezo. This is what we need to duplicate.

    You mentioned using the lock and unlock output, which would work, but instead I would consider the parking light output. This would be one single output that would output a signal for lock and unlock, and pulse when the alarm is goin off as well!

    How to wire it? You have a couple options here depending on if you are using the positive or negative parking light output setting in the alarm. Most use the positive. If this is how you have the parking lights wired, I would simply throw a relay on the positive parking light output to isolate the factory light circuit from triggering the piezo each time you turn on you factory lights. Wire as follows:

    White positive park light out from brain to a new wire leading to the piezo, and to terminal 86 on your new relay. 85 on relay to ground, 87 to fused 10 amp constant power, and 30 out to the parking lights. This will allow the alarm to trigger the piezo, and the park lights, but will isolate the factory parking light circuit so it does not trigger the piezo every time you turn on the lights from the factory switch.

    This should get the piezo up and chirping!

    Let me know what you find and how this works out!
     
  10. Jun 15, 2012 at 7:57 AM
    #10
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    Thanks Darren for getting back to me with this info. Its just odd that I have tried so many times but can't seem to manually trigger the piezo, maybe I am just applying too long of a pulse. I will test this with a pulse and if it works ill wire the relay.

    I really like the idea of the PL wire with a relay, they only down side to that is I have it programed to have my parking lights turn on during remote start, so I would have to loose that option, but I guess something I could live with. I'll post results up when I attempt. Thanks again for the help
     
  11. Jun 15, 2012 at 3:23 PM
    #11
    CrutchfieldDarren

    CrutchfieldDarren Well-Known Member Vendor

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    Technically that could be compensated for as well with one extra relay :) We would need to wire a relay to one of the blue or blue/white status or ground while running outputs. The extra relay would cut the signal to the piezo during remote start.
     
  12. Sep 13, 2012 at 10:53 PM
    #12
    Mototoy

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    Unfortunately none of this will work. The "piazo" is actually a small speaker. It is sent an audio signal from the ECU. Myself and plenty of other installers have ran into this before.
     
  13. Sep 13, 2012 at 11:05 PM
    #13
    benbacher

    benbacher Purveyor of Fun Vendor

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    That's not a super helpful post. And 'piezo' is the correct spelling.
     
  14. Sep 13, 2012 at 11:45 PM
    #14
    Mototoy

    Mototoy Member

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    Don't really have a great solution, just stating that all the previous is not going to work. I was able to stash the factory remote and trigger it with a couple relays. Not the most ideal but I'm probably one of the only guys to retain the beep with an aftermarket system. As far as the spelling goes.... I guess you got me. You win the internet:rolleyes:
     
  15. Sep 13, 2012 at 11:53 PM
    #15
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    Interested in the remote relay setup. I'm guessing you took it apart, used arm/disarm wires and soldered to remote to trigger the lock unlock transmit, which then triggers the beep? Maybe way off but am I close?
     
  16. Sep 14, 2012 at 12:01 AM
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    Mototoy

    Mototoy Member

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    Pretty close. Just made it to where it uses the factory remote for lock/unlock except when engine is running(factory remote wont unlock doors) and used status to trigger a 451 to trigger actual lock/unlock wires in kick panel. Fun bench prep to say the least...
     
  17. Sep 14, 2012 at 4:26 AM
    #17
    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    OK so i understand using the blue and green un/lock wires to trigger the oem remote instead of going to door lock wires in driver kick, but you lost me with the rest. Your saying that if the engine is running, the factory fob wont unlock the doors? If this is true then unlock after remote start wont work.

    So at this point I would guess you "5-wired" both alarm un/lock wires... have them do a straight pass thru to the oem remote, but use the RS status wire (blue/white) to trigger your 2 relays that 5 wired your door lock wires. This would divert their signal to a 451m relay pack which is then connected to your driver kick un/lock wires?

    Is this correct??

    Only problem i see is now you lose the ignition controlled door lock feature because if you used it then your factory remote would send a lock signal once you turn your truck on and make the piezo beep, and same thing when turned off it would beep twice..

    Then you program your alarm siren for "full alarm only" so you dont hear the chirps.

    Am i understanding this now or am i still way off?
     
  18. Sep 14, 2012 at 5:47 AM
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    ProForce

    ProForce [OP] IG @proforce1

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    So i decided that there is a much easier way to accomplish this. Radio Shack sells a 76db piezo buzzer that "beeps" identical to the OEM piezo. It is part number: 273-059. I will replace the siren that came with the alarm with this radio shack beeper. It will give me the OEM beep sound I want, and during full alarm it will just go "beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....eeeeeeep" lol. I also have the horn honk output connected to the horn and programmed to "full alarm only". I will leave that connected to the horn as is so if the alarm is triggered its more than just a little beep going off.

    Now to take it a step further, I will use 2 relays for this part. I want the alarm siren to also go off during full alarm along with the beep and horn. In order to accomplish this, I will tap into the horn honk output on the alarm. Run it to my first relay which will convert it from a negative (-) pulse to a positive (+) pulse. Then it will go to the second relay which will require 2 diodes, a 10k resistor and a 10k capacitor and convert the pulse to a constant signal. This will allow my alarm siren to till go off during alarm activation. I could also use a programmable TR7 module to accomplish this but its more expensive and still just as much work.

    Doing all this will be WAY less work, will cost under $10 for the entire project, will not interfere with any alarm functions or options, won't have any weird or undesirable side affects, won't require messing with my factory fob or any factory wiring. It a perfect and very easy solution that can be installed in under 30 minutes including pre-wiring and bench work.
     
  19. Sep 14, 2012 at 6:13 AM
    #19
    B737

    B737 Throbbing Member

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    i have the DEI remote keyless and start on my truck, similar to yours (no alarm though)
    do you think the 76db piezo buzzer, would work as a substitute / connected to the horn lead? then the DEI can be programmed to 'chirp the horn' but instead it would just beep the buzzer.

    like you, i really want to get the beeps back too. our mechanical locks are too quiet.
     
  20. Sep 14, 2012 at 7:43 AM
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    Mototoy

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    Innovation is always welcome! After all, that's what forums are for right? Always nice to bounce ideas off of an experienced installer.
     
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