1. Welcome to Tacoma World!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all Tacoma discussion topics
    • Communicate privately with other Tacoma owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Factory Integration - Audison Build

Discussion in 'Audio & Video' started by dolbytone, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Oct 22, 2020 at 4:28 PM
    #1
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    Alright, so this is not a Tacoma. A couple months ago I bought a 2020 4Runner. I still have the 2009 Tacoma with all its stereo stuff, and I was thinking cool, I have a work/utility truck and now a nice SUV, and when I want to listen to music I'll just drive the Tacoma around, the stock Entune in the 4Runner will be fine...

    Nope. I just couldn't take it anymore so I started thinking about what exactly to do. I DO like the Entune head unit, its functionality, the Carplay is pretty good (no wireless though :mad:), the car settings menu, and bottom line is that I'm not ready to rip it out. So, this is basically an integration with replacement speakers. I have yet to figure out WTF I'm going to do about subwoofers but I'll add what I do as I go.

    I'm putting this here for two reasons.

    1. This A/V forum is more active than the 4Runner one.
    2. The shit is identical between Tacoma and 4Runner anyway.

    What's on the menu is a lot of Audison Prima stuff.
    AP 2 in the dash - https://www.audison.eu/products/prima-ap2-wide-range-speaker/
    AP690 in the doors - https://www.audison.eu/products/prima-ap690-woofer-speaker/
    APX6.5 rear doors - https://www.audison.eu/products/apx-6-5/
    AP8.9 Bit Amplifier/DSP - https://www.audison.eu/products/ap8-9-bit/

    I haven't figured out what I want to do with the rear hatch speakers yet but I'll probably stick more coaxials there. I have yet to find a solution for subwoofer because I plan on keeping all of the cargo space clear for my stuff. Right now I'm looking into fiberglass something or other.

    Dash Speaker Replacement

    I chose the AP 2 because it looked like the perfect speaker for this location. There's no physical modification of the space required, the bracket works, and this speaker handles 150Hz to 20kHz. It's like putting the entire sound stage in the dash. My only eh on these is their power handling, 25W RMS - 50W peak, but paired with the AP8.9 Bit, I think they'll do fine. My plan was a lower power SQ system for this truck anyway. If I don't like them, the AP690 goes up to 5000Hz and I've got some Voce tweeters I can toss in.

    Here we go. At some point I'll install the amplifier and run new speaker wire, but I wanted to put these in, listen to them, see the difference, and assess them using the OE stereo's tune.

    Toyota parallel wiring harness - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RMZ4CR6/
    3/8 x 1/4 weather stripping - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQZP6LH/
    Metra 2.5" Speaker Adaptor - https://www.amazon.com/Metra-82-4201-Chrysler-Speaker-Adapters/dp/B01LXF9JNQ/

    I used a 1 1/2" electrical conduit knockout to make the hole in the Metra tweeter mount plate for the AP 2 and mounted it onto the OEM dash speaker bracket. The fit is snug and I ended up having to make a rectangular notch on each side to make room for the terminals on the speaker to fit through. I also trimmed off one of the plate's mounting holes.
    IMG_5044[1].jpg

    Here's the AP 2 compared to the OEM dash speaker.
    IMG_5045[1].jpg

    I went ahead and soldered in the filter capacitor because for now I'm not bi-amping the front.IMG_5078[1].jpg

    Here it is all wired up with the parallel speaker adapter harness. I used silicone on the back of the mounting screws, as well as a dollop to hold the capacitor in place.
    IMG_5117[1].jpg

    This is what it looks like all mounted in there. The alignment with the dash cover is perfect.
    IMG_5074[1].jpg

    Here are some measurements I took after installing the AP 2 speakers in the dash. It looks to me like the Entune system is definitely aligned to the driver's seat based on these results. All the audio balance/fade and High/Mid/Bass controls are set to Null.

    Microphone is on the center console - Stock Dash Speaker
    4Runner_center_stock_engine-off.jpg

    Microphone is on the center console - AP 2 installed
    4Runner_center_AP2_engine-off.jpg

    Microphone is in the driver's seat - Stock speaker
    4Runner_driver_stock_engine-off.jpg

    Microphone is in the driver's seat - AP 2 installed
    4Runner_driver_AP2_engine-off.jpg

    The AP 2 is definitely more sensitive. To listen to music I had to turn the treble down several clicks. Without being able to do any EQ it's hard to say how smooth/flat I can get them, but I will say that they sound much more competent than the OEM dash speaker and I quite like what they sound like so far. It looks to me like they really want to be high pass around 500Hz. I think the filter capacitor is a 6dB Butterworth at 300Hz. I'll know more once I install the Bit and see what it does to de-tune the Entune radio output.

    Door Woofers


    Toyota speaker wiring harness - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002BBP7Y/
    Metra 6x9 adaptors - https://www.amazon.com/Metra-82-8146-Speaker-Adapter-Vehicles/dp/B00IIC6CPE/
    1/4" thick 6x9 spacers - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016YS6OF6/
    Vapor barrier w/ felt - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D5VTMXG/
    Noico - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZKPVHCB/
    Butyl tape - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UPLJCS/

    So the Metra adapter isn't tall enough to make a good seal between the weatherstrip I was adding to the speaker, and the oval flange that seals against the speaker on the back of the door panel. Once I took the OEM speaker out, I made measurements and decided I needed a 1/4" spacer to make up the difference. So I mounted and glued the spacer onto the Metra speaker adapter to get the right height.
    IMG_5094[1].jpg

    Once the glue was dry I took a router and cut off all of the extra material so the spacer matched the top profile of the Metra adaptor. Then I painted them with FlexSeal.
    IMG_5097[1].jpg

    I put Noico on the inside of the outer door skin. I didn't go crazy, I just did whatever large pieces I could on the large areas without getting too nutty about piecing things together. I probably have more than 75% covered, but I found that the 4Runner already had a large square of something stuck there for the same reason I assume, and a piece of structural foam is bolted in there too so I removed that, put Noico behind it and bolted it back in.

    Here's where I did something a little different. I planned on replacing the vapor barrier but wanted something a little extra. So I looked around and found this product that is designed to go under laminate flooring that is a vapor barrier, but is also a layer of felt for noise reduction. The description said tolerant to extremes so I decided WTF and got it as well as some butyl tape to install it in place of the OEM vapor barrier. I put some weather stripping on the speaker and put the door back together.

    IMG_5116[1].jpg

    After the door woofers were done I took measurements again. To the ear, it sounds a lot more tight/controlled. The factory speakers were really boomy, but I'm sure all of the door treatment is a contributing factor. I've been listening to this setup for about a week and all I feel like I'm missing is some of the area where you hear musicality in bass guitar, which is probably that dip area between 160Hz and 315Hz, and there’s nothing I can do about it right now because the center frequency for Bass in the Entune is 100Hz and there’s nothing until Mid, which controls 1.25/1.6kHz.

    Microphone is on the center console - AP speakers installed
    4Runner_center_AP-Speakers_engine-off.jpg

    Microphone is on the driver's seat - AP speakers installed
    4Runner_driver_AP-Speakers_engine-off.jpg

    Rear Doors

    Mosuch 6.5" speaker mounting bracket - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZQGZWO/

    Rear doors were a repeat of the front. I removed the vapor barrier, put Noico on the inside of the outer skin, and replaced the vapor barrier with new butyl tape and the stuff that's felt lined. I did not like the Metra speaker adaptors however, and used an alternative that I found on Amazon. The inside angled flange of the new bracket interfered with the terminals on the speaker, preventing them from seating so once again I used a router to trim it down for a perfect fit.

    Metra on the left, Mosuch on the right.
    IMG_5229[1].jpg

    Mounted and wired for installation.
    IMG_5222[1].jpg

    Amplifier/DSP Installation

    Just a few pictures for now. I'm waiting on more materials.

    The Audison Toyota T-Harness vs. the connectors on my OEM stereo. I hadn't taken the stereo out to look at what the connectors looked like, and I didn't think necessarily that the Audison plug and play harness would work in this application, but I wanted to get my hands on it and see.
    IMG_5165[1].jpg

    So I made the guy at my local audio shop aware of my harness situation and he dug around in the cabinets for a minute or two and handed me this and said "K, use this one." He didn't charge me for it, probably since he assumed the Audison harness would work when he ordered it. Another reason to have a good relationship with your local shop.
    IMG_5171[1].jpg

    Just normal solder and heat shrink for sending signal back to the OEM harness to the speakers. Essentially I chopped the connectors I needed from the AX DSP harness and replaced the Audison plugs that were wrong for this stereo. Conveniently, it looks like all of the speaker terminals are combined into one plug on the stereo (thanks @destin_meeks for dropping that info, it was easy to find here in the A/V forum), so it was a straight single connector swap on both ends.
    IMG_5173[1].jpg

    Since I like to change things up often, I decided to put these connectors on the output of the Audison amplifier. This way I can wire up different configurations and make changes to the speaker side and not have to get into this pre-made pigtail that plugs into the amp.
    IMG_5176[1].jpg

    All loomed up and ready to install.
    IMG_5178[1].jpg

    I wanted to get the thing in there so I installed it dirty until the rest of my supplies show up. I ain't showing no pics of that so you'll have to wait. Primarily I wanted to check out the de-EQ function as well as get a basic tune in the truck. Let me first say that I'm still not a fan of the BIT software. While it is perfectly capable, it's just a pain in the ass to use and there are some things you can only do inside the Wizard, which pisses me off because I like to try things and do A/B comparisons. That being said, it's connected and I was able to run through a few of its features.

    This is a comparison of the response in the vehicle with and without the deEQ function activated. Based on these results, IMO the deEQ is total shit. I ran through it several times and I just don't understand WTF this piece of shit is trying to do because every time the results were worse than just leaving it disabled. I connected the speakers and took a listen to the Audison test files, the Pink Noise is band limited, which is fairly normal for setting levels, and it uses a Sine Sweep for the de-equalization process. You can only run the deEQ inside the Setup Wizard, and as far as I can tell, if you disable it and disconnect, you have to perform the process over so I don't think it keeps this file on standby in case you wish to enable it again. Annoying.

    Microphone is on the center console - deEQ on
    4Runner_center_AP_deEQ-on.jpg

    Microphone is on the center console - deEQ off
    4Runner_center_AP_deEQ-off.jpg

    Microphone is in the driver's position - deEQ on
    4Runner_driver_AP_deEQ-on.jpg

    Microphone is in the driver's position - deEQ off
    4Runner_driver_AP_deEQ-off.jpg

    Let me just say that personally I believe deEQ is a flawed concept irrelevant to these results. Often, at work when I'm setting up a large sound system there are several components in the signal chain that have the ability to manipulate the signal and I try really hard to only use one device rather than stack anything. This is simply because I think LESS EQ IS MORE, taking an input that has been equalized and then adding more equalization to it runs contrary to my philosophy of "leave it the hell alone if possible" because more EQ is just more potential distortion, more unnatural manipulation of the waveform, and in the case of deEQ, you could very well be turning something down that was turned up in the previous device. IMO this should be called counter-EQ, as that is a more precise description of what's happening.

    The same reasoning applies to crossover filters. When you have crossovers in your stereo and also on your amplifier you have to pick one. When you set a low pass on the head unit, then stack another crossover filter from the amplifier, even if it's the same frequency, all you are doing is skewing the signal's phase even more. Consequently, if you want to time align, you're making larger adjustments.

    Anyway...

    After I decided to leave the input equalization disabled, I ran a quick tune and here's what the result looks like. I left the microphone in the driver's seat for this.
    4Runner_driver_AP-Speakers_EQ.jpg
    4Runner_driver_AP-Speakers_EQ-BIT.jpg



    Yet to do:

    Subwoofer

    Right now I'm thinking JL Audio HD 750/1 and a pair of Sundown Audio SD4-10 subwoofer drivers. I want to run at 4 Ohms, hence the JL amp, since it puts out rated power anywhere between 1.5 and 4 Ohms, but also the JL HD amplifiers are nice and compact. I've been running the HD 900/5 in my Tacoma for about 10 years now and it's been flawless, powerful and clean.

    I still haven't got a plan for a cabinet(s). Will update when I figure it out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  2. Oct 22, 2020 at 5:15 PM
    #2
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Member:
    #223997
    Messages:
    2,740
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Destin
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 SSM DoubleCab TRD Off-Road 4x4
    Sub’d for a good build :thumbsup:
     
    dolbytone [OP] likes this.
  3. Oct 28, 2020 at 9:42 AM
    #3
    CLVol1255

    CLVol1255 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Member:
    #269644
    Messages:
    1,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2017 Toyota Tacoma TRD Sport 4x4, 2018 Chevy duramax crew cab 4x4 z71
    Sub’d to learn
     
  4. Oct 29, 2020 at 9:56 AM
    #4
    badhabit2break

    badhabit2break Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    Member:
    #254833
    Messages:
    230
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Stephen
    Houston, TX
    Vehicle:
    2018 Red Tacoma TRD Off-Road
    Stock
    Sub'd cause I like to watch.
     
  5. Oct 29, 2020 at 10:24 AM
    #5
    5nahalf

    5nahalf I build dumb things

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Member:
    #267058
    Messages:
    5,054
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Erik
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2018 Inferno Longbed
    So I started looking at this, see 09 tacoma in OPs "stable" I start looking at the pictures... ok, those look like 2nd gen tweeter mounts... wait, why are they going in the dash... wtf, why are the door woofers turned like that... wtf is this a 3rd gen dash in a second gen... then I realized this is a 4runner.

    Bet its going to sound real nice.
     
  6. Oct 29, 2020 at 2:11 PM
    #6
    timinct

    timinct Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Member:
    #340675
    Messages:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tim
    Ct
    Vehicle:
    2020 DCLB Sport
    2020 tacoma pro wheels, pro shift knob, ceramic tints
    Noob question. You said it’s the entune head unit. I have the jbl system in my 20 sport. Is that the same thing?

    I like the head unit and interface with the truck but I want better sound and more volume. I have been reading most of the post here but it is overwhelming when trying to figure out the easiest/best solution. I purposely got the jbl upgrade thinking I would be all set and not need to do anything but it’s not what I expected. Windows and roof open going down the road and I’m at full volume on a good tune thinking that’s it?

    I don’t won’t to remove it all and start from scratch but it is looking like speakers, sub and amp are going to have to happen. Just trying to educate myself as much as possible before doing anything. Plan is to keep this truck for a long time. Eight years till retirement and I don’t plan on buying another.

    Thanks for any input.
     
  7. Oct 29, 2020 at 2:49 PM
    #7
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    No, it is not the same thing. Anybody that's been around this forum for any length of time is aware of how mediocre the Toyota JBL system is. A coworker of mine got one in his Tacoma a few years back and I had the opportunity to give it a listen in person after reading here that it sucks and my conclusion was that it does indeed suck. For this reason, and the fact that I work in professional audio, and really just enjoy installing stuff in my vehicles, I did not opt for the JBL system when I bought either my Tacoma, or this new 4Runner.

    I think for some people it is adequate and they are happy, regardless I feel like it's not worth the extra expense when you are purchasing a new vehicle. Essentially you get the JBL badges and a system that is difficult to upgrade because of the addition of an amplifier, but you do get a factory subwoofer so once you figure out how you want to replace the amplifier, you have the option to just replace the sub driver in the OEM subwoofer speaker box, which could be convenient depending on what your expectations are.

    So, you do have options. Unfortunately, any solution isn't as simple as it would be without the JBL package, and it's sort of money you already spent so it feels like buying twice.
     
  8. Oct 29, 2020 at 4:02 PM
    #8
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    Yeah man, sorry about that! Made me laugh though so it was all worth it.

    Im going to get into the amp/DSP once all of my power crap shows up. So far just the distribution block and a replacement for my battery terminal have arrived. The 4Runner battery terminal is total bullshit for trying to bolt on one more big fat wire.

    My god what a massive plastic block over the positive terminal, wonder what’s underneath?
    9ED35DB8-79DB-42E9-877E-98CB46813D91.jpg

    Oh WTF! Where am I going to stick the power cable for my amps?
    83883F31-8249-40FE-9C76-CE06115A8372.jpg

    After digging around I finally found a solution and threw it on today.
    05C6AF3A-2384-443D-A903-DCD7A0228983.jpg
     
    badhabit2break and 5nahalf like this.
  9. Oct 29, 2020 at 4:36 PM
    #9
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Member:
    #223997
    Messages:
    2,740
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Destin
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 SSM DoubleCab TRD Off-Road 4x4
    Yeah those new fancy fused terminals are the worst as far as adding accessories go.

    Do you plan on doing the big 3 while you're under there? Or just beef up that factory ground
     
  10. Oct 29, 2020 at 4:41 PM
    #10
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    I’m thinking about adding a beefy ground along with the factory ground. I got a negative version of the same offset battery terminal but I don’t think I’ll need to use it.
     
  11. Oct 29, 2020 at 4:43 PM
    #11
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Member:
    #223997
    Messages:
    2,740
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Destin
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 SSM DoubleCab TRD Off-Road 4x4
    that's exactly what I did. I just made a length of 4awg and added it right on top of the factory ground, after little paint sanding
     
    dolbytone [OP] likes this.
  12. Oct 31, 2020 at 1:04 PM
    #12
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    I added some comments in the OP about a few things, mostly the input setup stuff and more bitching about the BIT software.

    So far it sounds really good but shit, I’m fairly annoyed with the auto stuff. The input sensitivity part sucked, the deEQ sucked, stupid quirks like setting up Center/Left Sub/Right Sub for which there are no inputs makes no sense. You also can't tell if it's saying this is the response before EQ, or if this is the EQ that was applied to achieve a flat input.

    Maybe it will get better but I doubt it.

    4Runner_deEQ-left.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-right.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-left-rear.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-right-rear.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-center.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-subwoofer.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-subwoofer-left.jpg
    4Runner_deEQ-subwoofer-right.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  13. Oct 31, 2020 at 1:08 PM
    #13
    destin_meeks

    destin_meeks I used to fix people's crappy stereos

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Member:
    #223997
    Messages:
    2,740
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Destin
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 SSM DoubleCab TRD Off-Road 4x4
    I’ve seen great reviews on the finished product for the BIT stuff, but horror stories about getting it there. The Five Star Car Stereo channel did a Raptor full of it a while back and it was definitely one of their longer series
     
    dolbytone [OP] likes this.
  14. Oct 31, 2020 at 1:18 PM
    #14
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    Yeah that’s my experience so far. It sounds killer but I really hate this software so far. What I want is for it to let me be more involved in the decision making. All you get when you switch it into Expert mode is your crossover adjustments open up so you can apply anything instead of it limiting you to what it thinks high pass should start at.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  15. Oct 31, 2020 at 11:53 PM
    #15
    Purpleman

    Purpleman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Member:
    #136093
    Messages:
    539
    Gender:
    Male
    Anaheim
    Vehicle:
    15 PreRunner
    Adding my .02 cents on the AP2

    So, I'm hanging out at a shop that isn't your typical car audio shop. Its some dude that worked at Alpine years ago and built most of their demo cars.
    Recently had an Aventador with AP2 in the dash..SPL Show in the doors and an Audison amp/processor....

    Needless to say everything was changed except the Audison amp/processor(swapping it wasn't in the budget).

    I asked, "so, what didn't you like about the AP2?"
    He Said(something like), "Its no replacement for a real tweeter!"

    I don't know shit about DSP's, which is the specific reason why I'm hanging out at the shop.
    But he has also added numerous times about his distaste for Audison's processors.
     
    dolbytone [OP] likes this.
  16. Nov 1, 2020 at 4:49 AM
    #16
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    I agree in the sense that the AP2 is not the right choice for a powerful system. They really fit that OEM replacement category, especially in Toyota vehicles that come with the 2” or 2 1/2” wider range speaker.

    If you put them on an amplifier you have to be careful since they won’t handle very much power relatively. It’s a little confusing that the complimentary woofer for the AP2 is built for 4x the power (100W - 300W).

    Yanno what though, they go all the way up the high end of the spectrum, and they sound great doing it. I’m not sure I’ve heard a car audio speaker with more detail. They sound great at low volume, and transition well as you turn it up.

    I think they’d be a perfect choice for someone that is replacing speakers and installing a head unit with some EQ on it, maybe adding a sub but has no intention of installing a 50W+ per channel amplifier. They have a lot of other options for tweeters that would be more suited to a system with more power like the AV1.1, but even the Prima line has the AP1 which is a 150W peak tweeter.

    I chose the AP2 because I really wanted the midrange in my dash and it wasn’t necessary to also install a tweeter. I can’t predict how long it will stay that way but for now I am very satisfied with them.

    Regarding Audison’s DSP... The hardware is quality, it doesn’t color or impact the sound in a negative way at all. I hate the software to control it however.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
    CLVol1255 and Purpleman like this.
  17. Nov 3, 2020 at 8:32 PM
    #17
    Lancejoker

    Lancejoker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2013
    Member:
    #105849
    Messages:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Lance
    Williamsburg,Va
    Vehicle:
    2017 TRD Pro
    Killer build. Love all the data you provided. Overall, would you say these are pretty accurate for sound reproduction? Coming from the music recording side of things, I typically like speakers that are flat and accurate and allow me to tune to where I like the sound.
     
  18. Nov 5, 2020 at 4:59 PM
    #18
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    I think they sound really light and detailed. I agree with the spec sheet that there is definitely more sugar up top around 10K. There is a midrange spike that I tuned out but I don’t know what the source of that is yet, so I can’t say for sure what their response looks like because I can’t see any of the tune in the factory radio outside of the treble/mid/bass controls.

    I will get a lot more time with this system in the next couple of days and I’ll be able to take a lot more measurements, play with the BIT DSP more, and maybe get them bi-amped.

    People all the time are wondering whether to go Audison or Hertz, and while I don’t have a lot of seat time with the Audison stuff yet, they pretty much are what I thought they would be, like two children with different personalities but otherwise very similar. Hertz is the brand with huge balls, adventurous, always wanting more. Audison, at least this Prima stuff, sounds very disciplined and in control with a lot of space and nuance. I love them equally, but for different reasons.

    Im still trying to coax out the lower midrange. Some bass lines sound great, but others sound buried behind the kick. I think I can work it out but I haven’t had time this last week to dig into it.

    AP 2 Tech Sheet
    6FB7A7DA-C967-4247-8E13-8695E500EA58.jpg

    AP 690 Tech Sheet
    04A10A6A-6DFF-4B96-B66A-46E83DA09193.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    CLVol1255 likes this.
  19. Nov 5, 2020 at 5:24 PM
    #19
    CLVol1255

    CLVol1255 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Member:
    #269644
    Messages:
    1,298
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Chris
    Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2017 Toyota Tacoma TRD Sport 4x4, 2018 Chevy duramax crew cab 4x4 z71
    Love reading and learning from ppl who really know their stuff about audio! Thanks for sharing Dolby
     
    dolbytone [OP] likes this.
  20. Nov 6, 2020 at 5:05 PM
    #20
    dolbytone

    dolbytone [OP] Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Member:
    #37165
    Messages:
    945
    Gender:
    Male
    South Carolina
    Vehicle:
    09 TRD Off Road
    Alright so there are times when you wanna know when your stereo starts clipping, usually this happens automatically when you have one of those new fangled amplifiers and it gives you lights and shit and you don't know what's going on but you do know GREEN = GOOD! So, I'm here to show what's happening to the signal, but also to figure out where the factory radio begins to distort. Interestingly, and annoyingly each channel begins to clip at 24.7V but the fader is slightly different for each channel when it reaches this voltage... You may or may not care, but generally, aftermarket stereos can reach full volume and not send a distorted signal. Nice ones anyway.

    I put on the 1KHz sine wave and with the speakers disconnected, I connected my oscilloscope to the amplifier input connector for each channel and checked the fader setting when each begins to square off.

    This is what a 1KHz tone looks like with no clipping.
    no-clipping.jpg

    This is what a 1KHz sine looks like just as clipping begins, note the slight square shape of the wave at max amplitude.
    just-clipping.jpg

    And here it's just damn obvious the wave is square and definitely distorted.
    clipping-AF.jpg

    Here's the list of fader settings for each channel where the signal just begins to clip, one notch down and no clipping occurs.

    Front Left - Fader 55
    Front Right - Fader 49
    Rear Left - Fader 52
    Rear Right - Fader 51

    I guess the only explanation for these differences is that the output is attenuated for the driver position, or some position anyway, as the right side of the vehicle reaches voltage sooner than the left side, and the driver front reaches voltage last which makes sense, being the closest set of speakers to the driver's seat.

    I'm working on getting the signal on my RTA but shit isn't cooperating and I wasn't able to get any measurements tonight. I wanted to see the pink noise response for each channel as it comes out of the factory stereo. I'll keep screwing around with it but I'm not sure if I can get anything useable with the stuff I have on hand. I might need to bust out the mega-kit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
    CLVol1255 likes this.
To Top