Fix for Squeaking Clutch

seems as of my troubles still exist. My chirp is more apparent then ever now. But here's the kicker, its not while at idle in neutral anymore. Only during acceleration and while in gear???? What to do?

 

I'd go back to stock until it's time to replace the clutch.

 

That option is in the trash lol. I'm in need of a clutch now though.

 

My actual question is, what's chirping? What do I need to replace now that the slave has adequate holding pressure. Is the noise from the t.o. that could be worn or somthing else? I know I'm soon to be in the market for a clutch due to the fact that I'm at the tip of my throw. I have no slippage yet but I'm also not comfortable where it is. I could possibly run it another 10k but that chirp has to go. It was only apparent every now an then. But now its regular from 1700rmp and up while driving. But out of gear at idle it sounds great. What to do?

 

Guys you have to go back and read the OP. It's probable your TO bearing, spindle, clutch, etc. is damaged beyond what preloading the bearing can cure.

 

I'm aware that there may have already been damage, I was hoping I caught it before hand since the squeak was only once in a blue moon. Not to make it constant and worse. I ordered a new clutch and I'm going to order the slave rebuild kit if I can find the correct one.

 

Which clutch did you buy? Did you get a new TOB?

 

Purchased a centerforce, I'm probably going to do the tsb along with the pdm or urd sleeve and the clutch all at once and hope for the best.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

2011/ 4.0L/ 6spd Manual/ 4x4. Guess I am in the same boat. Thought it was my belt so I replaced my pulleys. Finally figured out it was the TOB. Found the TSB shitstorm that surrounds the RA60F transmission and clutch (creaking clutch- internal and chirping clutch - external). From what I have been told/read, and it makes sense to me, if your TOB is squeaking its probably toast or is well on its way. I have 92k on my truck so its getting a new clutch and URD TOB kit. I will also replace the slave cylinder and Clutch fork release support as outlined in TSB 0365-10 (post 12). I found a place to buy just the pressure plate and disc so I dont have to waste money on a TOB I dont need. Also listing the URD site and price. I'm having the work done by the local transmission shop. Will let everyone know how it goes.

On a side note the mechanic at the transmission shop recommended the sleeve kit and said he had used them on subarus before as they had an aluminum bearing retainer as well.

https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/p...siteid=214329&vehicleid=314172&section=CLUTCH
http://urdusa.com/store/p1260519023...IT,-2005+-Tacoma-V6-6-Speed/product_info.html
https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/parts/2011/Toyota/Tacoma/index.cfm?action=partDetail&section=CLUTCH&group=HYDRAULIC SYSTEM&subgroup=HYDRAULIC SYSTEM&component=SLAVE CYLINDER&partnumber=3147035181&vehicleid=314172&siteid=214329



TSB slave cylinder - 45
TSB clutch release fork support - 11.68
disc - 113
plate - 168
URD TOB Sleeve - 225

 

Guys , this procedure of extending the spring in the slave cylinder is a massive mistake .
The OP does not know how a diaphragm style clutch functions .
All you are doing is wearing out your release bearing prematurely by following these ridiculous instructions
DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE

 

Since this was my OP and GC is trying to piss on me because I've challenged him on other posts I'd like to say that after 3 years the fix is still working fine...no noise and no problems. He's trying to substitute ranting for knowledge on his part. Enough said.

 

Hladun, please forgive me if this seems redundant, but I am trying to close the loops on a lot of these threads and hopefully tie them together.

I believe that loading the TOB against the pressure plate fingers full time is the wrong approach, as the bearing is not designed for 100% duty cycle the way you're describing.

Also, the video you reference has a squeaky TOB, but that is the OLD bearing they're showing as a reference.

Regardless, it seems as though replacing TOBs/PP/clutch discs only temporarily alleviates the problem, so we are in agreement there. It appears that the gradual change of the PP finger angles are what begin the intermittent chirping noise, combined with possible slop of the TOB angle on the transmission quill.

I am opting not to change anything until I can be assured of a more permanent fix that does not involve full time engagement of the TOB.

 

Here is the URD post:
Black Magic of the Clutch Release System

 

mynameistory you're not closing the loop on anything. You're just another guy saying preloading the TOB is wrong. My clutch works even after it had started squeaking before I fixed it. URD sells a lot of expensive repair kits, so what do you think they're going to tell you? Do what you like.

 

If you read the post by URD, you'll see that they describe the problem as a fundamental design flaw, rather than one that their kits can solve. Their sleeve kit is a bandaid for a worn transmission quill. As the friction material on the clutch disc becomes thinner, the PP fingers angle out further and begin touching the TOB, creating the chirp. This may also be exasperated if the TOB is resting at an angle relative to the PP due to quill wear. The URD sleeve kit can solve this angled problem with the TOB by presenting a tighter tolerance, keeping the bearing perpendicular to the shaft. But this only lasts until the PP fingers creep further and touch the bearing again. This is why the chirp can return, even with the sleeve kit.

Gearcruncher is correct when he says that this could have been corrected if there was a way to adjust the idle position of the TOB (further away) as the clutch wears down.

What you're prescribing is the mechanical equivalent of driving everywhere with your foot pushing lightly on the clutch (riding the clutch). This is not good for the bearing, and not what it was meant for. You may have a measure of success in quieting the noise, but you're putting unnecessary wear on the TOB, and it will fail much sooner than intended.

If your throwout bearing lasts 200,000 miles spinning the entire time the engine is on, you are a very lucky man. But I think it's rash to prescribe this as the solution.

 

For everyone else, when you look at 14:00 and following on this video anyone can clearly see that, new or old, the TOB turns when the clutch pedal is up. When you're trying to argue with someone like mynameistory who denies what anyone else can see it's a waste of time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJBXW65Q2FU

 

I apologize for the confrontation, I know that you have been working on outlining solutions for this problem for several years and you're tired of defending your position. I don't mean to argue, and I apologize for some conclusions I've jumped to.

I do see the TOB spinning with the clutch pedal out. I also see Taco09's post here, in which he discusses the permanent engagement of the bearing from the factory:
Transmission R-A60 manual transmission information . Your 6 speed transmissiom (WRITE UP )

All of these things make sense, and I understand the logic explaining shock loading and instant spin up of the bearing being more detrimental than constant engagement.

What I don't understand is how this issue is still rearing its head in newer transmissions with the updated slave P/C and spring assembly. My 2012 truck has developed the same chirp that the older trucks do. That's why the dealer has refuses to perform any service to my truck, even though I'm still under CPO warranty. I'm assuming that my truck has already been updated with the correct parts in T-SB-0365-10. I can only make this assumption, I cannot confirm unless I open the cylinder myself to compare with 04313-34011 (updated spring).

Even those who have performed the rebuild with their own hands have seen the problem not fixed, see Chris(NJ)'s post below.
2005 Tacoma V6 clutch slave cylinder rebuild

What vexes me is that if the parts work as they should and the release fork position is not adjusted, the pressure plate fingers should put MORE load on the bearing as the clutch disc wears down with age- this should mean that if loading the bearing is a requirement of the assembly, that it would get quieter as the clutch wears. Indeed, the bearing quiets down as soon as I apply load by pushing in the pedal.

Now what I am wondering is if I am not experiencing clutch disc wear, but rather a wearing of the release fork system that is not allowing the TOB to sit in its correct idle spot. If the bearing does require a small amount of load to prevent chirp/wiggle, perhaps the release assembly is wearing so that the bearing is floating further away than intended. The spring rebuild kit appears to address this on some trucks- but if this is the sole cause of the noise, wouldn't the clutch chirp from mile zero? This only occurs on trucks that have driven 40, 50, 60K etc. miles.

Again, I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions and I don't mean to argue. I am just frustrated that one solution has not been agreed upon yet, even by Toyota or their clutch assembly vendors. I don't want to fix my truck more than once. Thank you for your time and information.

 

If you can get past the delusion that the TOB doesn't turn continuously, some points to consider:

1. I didn't dream this up, preloaded TOB's are how car manufacturers do it today with self-adjusting clutches. Even a tiny bit of searching will show you that.
2. The parts aren't important, but when you mount the slave cylinder the spring has to exert a substantial force on the arm.
3. You have to know what you're doing and I repeat you have to know what you're doing.
4. This does not bring back clutches from the dead. If your TOB and spindle are worn beyond a given point then nothing will fix that. This fix is to prevent that from happening when you clutch is just starting to squeak.
5. You have to live in the present and forget how old clutches that had return springs and needed setting worked.
6. Toyota won't admit anything because of liability issues and parts manufacturers may have ulterior motives so don't expect a straight answer.
7. This is "riding the clutch" but it doesn't mean a slipping clutch. Clutches have a large clamping force that must be overcome before they start to slip.
8. These parts wear out eventually so no fix will last forever.
9. There is a design flaw in the TOB. The bearing has a long, unsupported collar (look at the TSB drawing) that extends up against the clutch fingers. To understand the physics (and I have an engineering physics degree) put a piece of garden hose in your drill and turn it on. The hose will flop around as it turns; that's the problem.

 

Got a private message about this http://urdusa.com/store/p1260519431/URD-FIX-U-Hydro-Bearing-Conversion-Kit-"The-FIX"/product_info.html. It confirms my original diagnosis and offers a nice, expensive fix. If it preloads the TOB then it will work but I'd do my cheap fix and then spend a bundle if that fails. Incidentally, I emailed URD a year or two ago (actually Feb 2013) telling them what the problem was and they played dumb but probably stole the idea. That's OK, maybe we have something that works.