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functional hood scoop

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by dubtee, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. Jul 23, 2007 at 10:03 AM
    #1
    dubtee

    dubtee [OP] Member

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    i have a 2006 trd sport and i wanted to know if drilling out the rivets in my hood scoop and making it a functional scoop worth the increased air to the back of the engine?
     
  2. Jul 23, 2007 at 11:30 AM
    #2
    Spyder327

    Spyder327 Well-Known Member

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    You will get some people that say opening it up helps and some that say it does not and is meant to stay closed. As far as how i would define "functional" there isn't really a way to make it that. You wont see any real ram effect because the actual intake is not near that hood scoop. "functional" hood scoops usually have the intake right there so that its pulling air to the engine from that location.
     
  3. Jul 26, 2007 at 5:51 AM
    #3
    07TRDsport

    07TRDsport Carolina Alliance

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    i think what dubtee was meaning by functional was that it would let air into the engine compartment and help cool the engine compartment, because like you said spyder theres no intake on top of the engine, but hmm that makes me wonder if you can do some working around with some kind of way to do some custom fab to hook the side intake to the top and make it fully functional... im sure if done, you would get alot more air going into the intake
     
  4. Jul 26, 2007 at 5:54 AM
    #4
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    That would be very cool! I would actually look for a scooped hood then.
     
  5. Jul 26, 2007 at 8:08 AM
    #5
    dubtee

    dubtee [OP] Member

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    i drilled out the rivets. i feel like my truck is running a bit cooler with the slight increase of air to the back of the engine.
     
  6. Jul 26, 2007 at 11:19 AM
    #6
    07TRDsport

    07TRDsport Carolina Alliance

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    how did you go about opening up the scoop?
     
  7. Jul 29, 2007 at 5:51 PM
    #7
    caglezxj

    caglezxj Well-Known Member

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    Be careful trying to force more air into the intake. Doing it to help cool is o.k. But inside your air box there is a sensor and it send signals back to the engine, If you are not getting the right amount of air to the sensor then your engine could shut off, run rough, or get poor gas milage.
     
  8. Jul 29, 2007 at 8:29 PM
    #8
    SLOTaco

    SLOTaco Ultimate Member

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    If your talking about the mass air flow sensor, then yes there is one in the air box, or in the intake just behind the box. All it does is tell your ecu how much air the motor is taking in so it can tell it how much gas to feed through the injectors. Forcing more air through shouldn't hurt the sensor, in fact the sensor will just tell the ecu to put more fuel to the motor. If making the hood scoop functional(i.e. engine intake though it) allows the engine to breathe easier, then you likely would increase power and gas mileage. I would do it in a heart beat if I could find a kit that was made for it.
     
  9. Jul 29, 2007 at 8:54 PM
    #9
    Spyder327

    Spyder327 Well-Known Member

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    URD says they tested an intake in that location, and found it didn't help much. Which is why they made their CAI in the grill area.

    If you want more airflow i'd suggest just buying URD's.

    The MAF sensor does tell the amount of air but it can cause a lot of trouble if it gets incorrect readings, etc..
     
  10. Jul 31, 2007 at 12:12 AM
    #10
    dubtee

    dubtee [OP] Member

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    there is like four nuts and one screw holding the hood scoop in place under the hood. after i pulled that out, there are three rivets holding the plastic wind barracade in place. two on top one o the bottom. i used a 5/32" drill bit (or the biggest one that will fit in the rivet hole) and drilled straight through the center of the rivets. i popped them off with my knife. i used a plastic rivet to replace the screen on the hood scoop. be careful in popping them off with your knife. i broke one of my fiberglass tabs that was holding in the rivet but a little super glue was sufficient in holding it back in place.
     
  11. Aug 6, 2007 at 3:13 PM
    #11
    Lee's06Taco

    Lee's06Taco Well-Known Member

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    Bad idea, water and debris will be able to get through to the engine. Leave it as is.
     
  12. Aug 6, 2007 at 6:41 PM
    #12
    caglezxj

    caglezxj Well-Known Member

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    The ecu get the reading from the mass air flow sensor. The ecu recognizes what was programmed, By forcing more air than normal or no air it will hurt you. Now if there was a kit, that could modify the ecu program then maybe ok. I work for toyota motor manufactor in Alabama. The V6 is ran in a no fuel test bench , which means they run the engine without actually firing it up. However the V8 we make run in a Test bench that actually fires the engine up. I have worked on the wiring harnesses, ecu mass air flow sensors . There has been times that when the air flow sensor gets dirty or more air is let into the engine than it can compensate it will start stalling out. Try this. Take a air line and blow more air into your air box. Forced air will cause you problems. TRD makes a cold air intake, and would be covered by the factory warranty.





     
  13. Aug 8, 2007 at 2:23 AM
    #13
    reid

    reid Well-Known Member

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    You guys should look back into older cars that actually came with hood scoops (functional ones). The "function" of the hood scoop was to increase the amount of cold air getting to you air filter, not to increase the amount of air. Different car companies have tried different "Ram Air" designs, but without a turbo or supercharger you will never force more air into your intake than it can suck in, no matter how fast you drive.

    I would definatelly never worry about screwing up your computer by "forcing" too much air by removing the cover on your hood scoop.

    You might see the benifits of colder, dencer air getting to your filter though. Probably not as efficient as the URD which puts you air filter farther away from your warm engine.
     
  14. Aug 8, 2007 at 4:40 AM
    #14
    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    Dude....the mass air sensor adjusts for air flow...it actually reads the volume and density of the oxygen. As you push more air the ECU will put more pressure on the injectors to inject more gas; hence more power. Your test with compressed air is a bad one as that is to much air flow and the injectors cannot deliver enough fuel causing the engine to cut off. If what you were saying about a static program was true then the truck could not work in the winter when you get alot more air (oxygen) just from the colder temps. More air + more gas = more power.
     
  15. Aug 8, 2007 at 3:33 PM
    #15
    caglezxj

    caglezxj Well-Known Member

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  16. Aug 9, 2007 at 4:42 AM
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    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure you understand what I am saying....the link you quoted references that Toyota has the Mass Air Sensor set to a richer state than needed for our trucks. OK...a recal on the MA will allow you to lean it out abit and get a little more HP. But the most dangerous thing you can do is go to lean. If you use a recal and lots of other mods you will be on the dangerous side of your A/F ratio. So not sure what your looking for here. The best way to get performance is to match your A/F ratio to your mods either by reprogramming the ecu or using something like an FMU to adjust the fuel pressure as boost/air flow increases.
     
  17. Aug 9, 2007 at 4:54 AM
    #17
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    Could you explain why a leaner A/F ratio is hazardous?
     
  18. Aug 9, 2007 at 5:16 AM
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    4x4Taco

    4x4Taco Well-Known Member

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  19. Aug 9, 2007 at 5:20 AM
    #19
    007Tacoma

    007Tacoma I dub thee malicious!

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    So, in your opinion, is there a safe way for me to use a URD MAF Calibrator to get a bit more power out of my 2.7L without causing damage to my engine?

    I admit, I am confused on detonation. What is the difference in detonation and combustion?
     
  20. Aug 9, 2007 at 6:38 AM
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    maverick491

    maverick491 Towing Guru

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    As I understand it the URD MAF calibrator IF USED CORRECTLY PER GADGET'S INSTRUCTIONS is safe for your engine, though I don't know how much benefit you'll see from it in your 2.7. Not engine bashing here, but I have read several places where the 4.0 engines run rich, but have not heard the same about the 2.7, so I dunno how much correction the calibrator would be capable of in your application and still be "safe." I assure you that it would be of some benefit, particularly as you add mods and such to the truck because you can continue to tweak the AFR, I just don't know if it will come close to advertised.

    Normal combustion

    Under ideal conditions the common piston internal combustion engine burns its fuel air mix in the cylinder in an orderly and controlled fashion. The combustion is started by the spark plug some 15–40 crankshaft degrees prior to TDC (top dead center), the point of maximum compression. This ignition advance allows time for the combustion process to develop peak pressure at the ideal time for maximum recovery of work from the expanding gases. This point is typically 14–18 crankshaft degrees ATDC (after top dead center).

    The spark plug produces an electrical spark that jumps a small gap from its center electrode to its ground electrode. This spark, if the air/fuel mix is within the flammable range for the fuel, initiates combustion. The initial phase forms a small kernel of flame approximately the size of the spark plug gap. For the first few milliseconds of the combustion process, this flame kernel is struggling to survive, producing only slightly more heat than is necessary to continue the combustion process. As it grows in size its heat output increases allowing it to grow even faster.

    After this early slow burn phase passes, the flame kernel grows much faster expanding rapidly across the combustion chamber. This growth is due to the travel of the flame front through the combustible fuel air mix itself and due to turbulence rapidly stretching the burning zone into a complex of fingers of burning fuel air that have a much greater surface area than a simple spherical ball of flame would have. This greatly accelerates the combustion process.

    In normal combustion, this flame front moves throughout the fuel air mix at a rate characteristic for the fuel-air mixture. Pressure rises smoothly to a peak, burning nearly all the available fuel then falls as the piston descends. In normal combustion this produces a rapid increase in cylinder pressure as the piston passes TDC and begins to move down the cylinder. As mentioned above in a properly tuned engine the maximum cylinder pressure is achieved a few crankshaft degrees after the piston passes TDC, so that the increasing pressure can give the piston a hard push when its speed and mechanical advantage on the crank shaft gives the best recovery of force from the expanding gases.


    Detonation

    The fuel/air mixture is normally ignited slightly before the point of maximum compression to allow a small time for the flame-front of the burning fuel to expand throughout the mixture so that maximum pressure occurs at the optimum point. The flame-front moves at roughly 33.5 m/second (110 feet/second) during normal combustion[citation needed]. It is only when the remaining unburned mixture is heated and pressurized by the advancing flame front for a certain length of time that the detonation occurs. It is caused by an instantaneous ignition of the remaining fuel/air mixture in the form of an explosion. The cylinder pressure rises dramatically beyond its design limits and if allowed to persist detonation will damage or destroy engine parts.

    Detonation can be prevented by:

    • The use of a fuel with higher octane rating
    • The addition of octane-increasing "lead", methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT), isooctane, or other antiknock agents.
    • Increasing the amount of fuel injected/inducted (resulting in lower Air to Fuel Ratio) (This is the part we are talking about here. The airflow to the engine is fixed, what the MAF calibrator does is alter the amount of fuel. If you remove too much fuel (lean) the combustion becomes detonation because there was not enough fuel to burn evenly)
    • Reduction of cylinder pressure by increasing the engine revolutions (lower gear), decreasing the manifold pressure (throttle opening) or reducing the load on the engine, or any combination.
    • Reduction of charge (in-cylinder) temperatures (such as through cooling, water injection or compression ratio reduction).
    • Retardation of spark plug ignition.
    • Improved combustion chamber design that concentrates mixture near the spark plug and generates high turbulence to promote fast even burning.
    • Use of a spark plug of colder heat range in cases where the spark plug insulator has become a source of pre-ignition leading to detonation.
    • Correct ignition timing is essential for optimum engine performance and fuel efficiency.

    Spyder, if you would be so kind as to check me on all that again.

    I am gaining an understanding of how all this works, but am far from an expert, so please don't rely completely on what I say unless someone else collaborates.
     
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