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Help me understand why a spacer lift is bad (front) and 5100's are good.

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by Geosh, May 10, 2013.

  1. May 11, 2013 at 10:14 AM
    #21
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

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    Well... you're changing the relative location of the lower perch, on the body of the shock. This changes the distance between the upper and lower SHOCK mounts, resulting in a change in ride height. Essentially you are moving the shock body down while leaving the spring's length the same.
     
  2. May 11, 2013 at 3:20 PM
    #22
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

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    Negative. Spring will be slightly shorter once preloaded. Mounts stay the same up top, just the arms rotate down. It works just like an adjustable coilover, just using top of sprung spacers or adjustable height lower spring perch instead of the threaded collar.

    Upper and lower mount points are the same. Nothing changes mechanically till you get coil bind on compression, just more preload. Spring exerts x force at full extension of shock and x per inch till it matches vehicle weight, which determines ride height. For progressive springs this is very bad for ride quality. If you preload too much and close off coils you can make a linear coil be have progressive rate and also harm ride quality. All linear springs increase rate to a small degree. If we are using closed ended coils there are no other differences
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  3. May 11, 2013 at 3:28 PM
    #23
    OffroadToy

    OffroadToy The dog did it...I swear!

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    ^ correct
     
  4. May 11, 2013 at 3:45 PM
    #24
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

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    You are right. Springs are simply pounds per inch. And you are also right that you are simply pushing your UCAs/LCAs downward when you change the location. But when you do that, you don't change the upper shock mount. This lengthens the shock at your level ride height.

    That's what I was trying to say in my previous posts:

    You are lengthening your shock as you increase the ride height of your truck. That's point. When you get a 5100 that's not a big deal because it's typically a longer shock. If you throw a spacer in without getting a longer shock, you can hit the stops of the shock like what was being described earlier. Maybe we're in violent agreement?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  5. May 11, 2013 at 5:40 PM
    #25
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

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    No we are not. There are two types of spacers. The preload spacer has no effect on bottoming out early. It sits between the spring and upper assembly. Then you have spacer over upper assembly and under coilover mount on frame. This does not preload anything. This lengthens the open and closed length of shock and simply spaces the coilover assembly down.

    The preload function of a Bilstein 5100 to gain lift via preload does not need a longer shock travel. I know some of their literature makes it sound like that and for some other truck it may matter but not for ours. Top mount and preload spacers are totally different and not related in function.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  6. May 11, 2013 at 6:39 PM
    #26
    Lumpskie

    Lumpskie Independent Thinker

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    I've had a spacer on my rig. It retained my stock upper mount location and fit between that and the yltop hat. This top spacer lengthened my shock to gain lift. I've also used 5100s that did essentially the same thing from the bottom. Bottom line. If you get lift while retaining the stock top mount it lengthens the shock.

    Edit: It looks like the spacer setup your referring to is on top of the top hat, inside the bucket. You're right, that setup doesn't lengthen the shock. Sorry for the confusion and waste of time.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  7. May 11, 2013 at 7:09 PM
    #27
    Ronn

    Ronn Well-Known Member

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    So there really is no difference between preloading from the bottom(5100) and preloading from the top (in coil spacer), assuming the shocks are the same.
     
  8. May 11, 2013 at 7:42 PM
    #28
    DevL

    DevL Well-Known Member

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    Correct it just changes spring tension. Top spacer just lowers the assembly mount point if you want to think of it that way, no change in spring tension.
     
  9. May 11, 2013 at 7:52 PM
    #29
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Yes. But this can still happen with a 5100 shock at the 2.5" perch position.

    The only way to prevent that is run 5100 at 0" with a longer spring then when the longer spring bottoms out - the bump stop still comes in to play.

    Or simply extend your bumpstops. Some TW'ers claim to have done that with inexpensive washers. It's pretty common to run bump-stop-extensions in the jeep world. Not sure why it's so uncommon on Tacomas.
     
  10. May 11, 2013 at 7:58 PM
    #30
    bjmoose

    bjmoose Bullwinkle J. Moose

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    Guys, let's reframe the discussion. It's simple really:

    IF you're bottoming out your springs hard or often, either because of off-roading, or because you're using your truck to haul heavy loads...

    THEN you should be using a longer spring with a higher spring rate to prevent that. You'll be more comfortable, and everything mechanical, including the strut coilover assembly itself, will last longer.

    Everything else just obfuscates this simple point.
     
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