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How air goes thru your engine.....(basic)

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by chris4x4, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Thor

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    I'm doing a little bit of research now. At the moment, I think the runners are designed primarily to accommodate the air flow bounce back that occurs when the intake valve closes. I'm always open to being wrong(I did agree to get married) If you have any sources, I would love to read them.

    I agree.

    I know you know, I just thought it was a good thing to point out the difference in the air flows through a S/C vs. T/C engine.

    Seems like a good idea to me...

    Actually, most manufacturers do that, just not to that extent. Look up the EGR valve.
     
  2. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    They are for that. BUT, if the air flow is turbulant, the pulses wont be able to be as easily tuned, if at all. One of the reasons manufactures have switched from cast aluminum intake manifolds to injection molded plastic ones (other than it IS less expensive), is that the runners can be made smoother, creating less turbulence. if you look closely at the bends in a modern intake, you will see that they are a little flatter than the straight parts of the intake. This is to avoid the tubulence formed when air goes around a turn. The air tward the "out side", if you will, of the bend is going to accelerate faster than the air tward the inside of the bend, thus causeing turbulence in the stream. By flattening it, all the air (more or less) maintains the same velocity. This same thing can be used in the exhaust, as bends in the pipe cause turbulence, and slow down the exhaust gasses. Seems only 1 company has done this with FANTASTIC results, but there is a patent on it. http://www.micronexhaust.com/store/prodserpent.htm
     
  3. MacTaco

    MacTaco Mustache May

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    Kinda like farting into a tube leading to your mouth.
     
  4. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Whats wrong with that?
     
  5. MacTaco

    MacTaco Mustache May

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  6. lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Thor

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    I guess this all goes back to treating laminar and turbulent as absolute terms. Me saying it isn't laminar and Chris saying it is, we might be saying the same things. My definition of laminar is that there is no turbulence. I'm thinking Chris's definition is that it is mostly smooth flow. (correct?)

    I understand what and why you have said about the laminar flow-that laminar flow makes the intake pulses easier to predict and calculate. I see that testing is really the only way to accurately and efficiently design an intake manifold.

    I disagree that the design of intake runners is to increase laminar flow. I believe that the design of the runners is largely defined by the desired power band.
     
  7. lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Thor

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    are you trying to say that you don't sniff your own farts???

    yeah!
     
  8. 98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

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    You have to smell the "exhaust". Good indication of your tuning.
     
  9. MacTaco

    MacTaco Mustache May

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    Hahahahahahaha :poking:
     
  10. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Well.....ok. being as the air stream will never be 100% laminar.


    Originally, yes. Not long ago, manufactures started useing them (designing) to also smooth the air flow into the combustion chamber.
     
  11. lsocoee

    lsocoee My hair is all natural Thor

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    OK. Good to know. I concede.
     
  12. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Correct! that would be your FSR (Fart Smell Ratio). Poor tuning is noticed when checking the FSR you find a bit of S (shit) comming out of the pipe when testing for the FSR. This would lead to a FS/SR (Fart Smell/Shit Ratio), in which case, changeing your diet may be in order.....or seeing a Dr.
     
  13. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    4.10 gears, sliders, lots of buttons, and yellow flashing lights on the dash.
    Me too.. My head hurts, and I cant get ahold of any of my friends to help me out. :(
     
  14. 98tacoma27

    98tacoma27 :POOPCORN: Thor

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    .....making a Throttle Body Spacer (TBS) nothing more than a $40ish trinket.
     
  15. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Yepo! TBS does hold paper down VERY well, however. :)
     
  16. sonjay

    sonjay Well-Known Member

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    Great write-up chris!
     
  17. chris4x4

    chris4x4 [OP] With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Thor

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    Ty, Sir! :proposetoast:
     
  18. DanGer

    DanGer Avatar approved by 98tacomav6

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    This is the first time I have seen this. Who know iso could make a... a...intelligent post?
     
  19. XrunnIT

    XrunnIT Well-Known Member

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    some very good points in this article. very well worded chris. I tried to give you rep.. but apparently I have to give more rep to other people before I can give some to you again. :laugh:

    A few others that can be added to the list, is the pulse rebound that happens after a valve shuts.

    On the 05+ tacomas the air surge tank has a butterfly valve that adjusts the runner length to optimize that pulse rebound to provide optimal efficiency through the full RPM band. This is essentially the theory behind the throttle body spacer, as the throttle body will act as the rebound point on the intake, where the collector is the rebound on the exhaust end.

    Then we can talk about backpressure and the importance of proper header design.

    You can also dive into diameter changes, port matching, and the Bernoulli's Principle as well (purpose behind mandrel bends in exhaust).

    Lots of fun stuff... doesn't everybody just love to learn about the engineering that goes into what we all assumed was just "some path to get air from outside to the motor, and the the motor back to the outside"

    PS.. what happened to getting this as a sticky..
     
  20. 2003 TRD Man

    2003 TRD Man Well-Known Member

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    Chris-- Great Write Up----U THE MAN :)
     
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