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Hydrogen Generators

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by Raoul Duke, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. Jan 30, 2013 at 1:22 PM
    #1
    Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke [OP] Well-Known Member

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  2. Jan 30, 2013 at 1:25 PM
    #2
    PreRunnerSeth

    PreRunnerSeth Well-Known Member

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    Oman, not this again.
     
  3. Jan 30, 2013 at 1:56 PM
    #3
    Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke [OP] Well-Known Member

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    oh sorry!!! should i take it down hahaha
     
  4. Jan 30, 2013 at 1:57 PM
    #4
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Staff Member

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    IIRC, Mythbusters did tests on it and found that it was.........


    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jan 30, 2013 at 1:59 PM
    #5
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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  6. Jan 31, 2013 at 1:56 PM
    #6
    SteveT

    SteveT Well-Known Member

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    you'll get better results from a turbonator or an electric supercharger along with the fuel line magnets :D
     
  7. Feb 5, 2013 at 10:37 AM
    #7
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Actually I watched the show and they said that a car was quite capable of running of nitrogen generated from one of these "hydrogen generators". The problem ensues from the excessive electricity required to generate sufficient enough nitrogen to be self sufficient. So the Mythbuster's final determination was "Possible, but not plausible".
     
  8. Feb 5, 2013 at 12:35 PM
    #8
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Staff Member

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    meh....thats "busted" in my eyes. :eek:
     
  9. Feb 6, 2013 at 6:40 AM
    #9
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Just means technology hasn't developed that far yet. hehe
     
  10. Feb 6, 2013 at 9:30 AM
    #10
    Yota Toy

    Yota Toy Taco Sauce

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    I will make this one easy: You can't start with water, extract energy, and end with water. That would be perpetual motion...
     
  11. Feb 6, 2013 at 9:09 PM
    #11
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    We realize that Yota. The point was is it possible for a truck/car to run on nitrogen generated through this type of system. And it can. It just was not something that can be self sustaining.
     
  12. Feb 6, 2013 at 9:24 PM
    #12
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    It's basic physics.
    There is no amount of technology development that can counter the laws of physics.

    1 - You can't get something from nothing.
    2 - No energy conversion is 100% efficient.

    Converting water to hydrogen takes energy, and it takes more energy than you will extract from the hydrogen.

    That energy has to come from the vehicle's electrical system.

    That's another energy conversion, so you are taking more energy from the engine than you are putting into the water to make hydrogen than you are getting from the hydrogen.

    The only way to come out ahead is if the hydrogen generation system is 100% isolated from the vehicle's electrical system, and it's power supply is recharged from something other than the vehicle.

    Load up a bank of batteries, charge them at home, and use them to run the hydrogen generator. Advantage, the generator can run 24/7 depending on battery charge so it can store up hydrogen when the engine is not using it (because the engine can draw more hydrogen than the portable systems can produce).


    But you're better off simply eliminating three energy conversion steps and going directly to plug-in hybrid technology augmented by solar panels in the roof.
     
  13. Feb 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM
    #13
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Corrected:
    Therefore, a dead-end unless your goal is to scam people out of $$$.
     
  14. Feb 7, 2013 at 6:17 AM
    #14
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    Thanks for the word correction. wasn't thinking about that when typing. Seems people are misunderstanding what I am trying to say anyway. I am not in any way saying that this system would be plausible. Nor am I trying to say it is something that can be attained like they are trying to say. The only point I was trying to make was that yes, a car CAN run off hydrogen. That is ALL I was trying to point out.
     
  15. Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM
    #15
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Oh of course, though a more efficient use of hydrogen would be in an electric hybrid type vehicle using hydrogen fuel cells, augmented with regenerative braking and plug-in recharge capability. The internal combustion engine is simply an incredibly inefficient use of any fuel.

    True zero emission and the same unlimited daily range of a gasoline hybrid.
    Daily range is the dead-end in pure electric vehicles such as the Tesla. 200-300 miles on a charge is not going to cut it for a road trip.

    The problems with hydrogen and pure electric are correctable, but are not short-term solutions.
    Hydrogen will require a major infrastructure retrofit.
    Pure electric can be solved with a "battery exchange" network similar to BBQ propane tank exchange booths. Rather than plugging in every time you stop, you simply stop at a "station" every 200-300 miles and exchange your batteries, which are then recharged by the station for the next customer.

    Incredibly expensive to develop and operate, as sufficient stock to cover daily travel on an interstate would require huge amounts of "real estate".

    I just don't see pure electric vehicles as a solution for anything other than city commuters.
     
  16. Feb 9, 2013 at 5:53 PM
    #16
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    I agree that an ICE is very inefficient. As for the Tesla, I had thought I read it was capable of somewhere in the vicinity of 300 plus miles? Not exactly perfect, but not many people drive that many miles in a single day's commute. I lived quite a distance from the dealership I worked at in Florida, but even a 200 mile range would work for me in a single day. I agree the changeover to any system other than gasoline will be expensive, and time consuming. Hence the reason I think hybrids are such a strong beginning. I have worked on the Tahoe hybrid, and they still inefficient, even with regenerative braking, but it is a step in the direction of learning.

    Remember back in the day the world thought automobiles were a "fad" and would never last because the horse was so much more dependable.
     
  17. Feb 9, 2013 at 6:10 PM
    #17
    Rich91710

    Rich91710 Well-Known Member

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    Ya, Tesla runs about 300 miles, which would cover me for 3 days, but I'm talking about it being impractical for a road trip where you might cover 600 in a day.

    Even with charging facilities available as commonly as gas stations, the recharge time is a deal breaker.
    We would need a network of battery swap stations.



    And remember, when people thought the horse was more dependable, they were right, because the primary auto builder was Ford :D
     
  18. Feb 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM
    #18
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 ASE Master Tech Vendor

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    :ohsnap:
     
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