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Intake Manifold Spacer 4.0l Coming!

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by highaltitude, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. May 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM
    #581
    PMK

    PMK Well-Known Member

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    I doubt you will see any change in the intakes ability to flow more CFM. The spacer acts to change the length of each intake tube or runner. This will change the volumetric efficiency, and is why there is a change in where the power output is repositioned.

    For many years Yamaha was the leader in this technology. The technology is about pulses in the intake runner and tuning the length so that it becomes optimized for a given rpm range.

    PK
     
  2. May 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM
    #582
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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  3. May 12, 2013 at 3:55 PM
    #583
    Krazie Sj

    Krazie Sj Resident Jackass

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    Borla Catback Exhaust, Airaid Short Ram Intake, 285x75R16 Mickey Thompson MTZs, 16" Konig Countersteer rims, ARB Bumper, All Pro LT w/Walker Evan Shocks front and back, All Pro expedition leaf pack, 10,000lb Superwinch, Intake Manifold Spacer, Bed Rack with ARB RTT, Rotopack and Hi Lift mounted, Husky Liner mats and an air freshener from 1995.
    How bout now?
     
  4. May 12, 2013 at 3:59 PM
    #584
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    :thumbsup:
     
  5. May 12, 2013 at 4:10 PM
    #585
    tooter

    tooter play every day

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    I can understand your view even though I'm on the other side. Dyno runs need to be done under as identical conditions as possible to be trustworthy. And it's a real shame that a dyno run needs to start at 3,600 for a product that purports to increase low end torque. I mean, what's the point? It's maddening to hear excuses why there isn't an actual apples to apples before and after comparison. Why is arriving at the truth always so fucking elusive? It's such a simple task to do a couple of runs and post the damn graphs.

    The highaltitude's product likely does offer performance improvements. So why not simply QUANTIFY that difference and put a stake through the heart of the skeptical vampire once and for all?

    And, high, lest you think that I'm being negative. I also do what you're doing. :) I design, build, and sell intake manifolds for another vehicle.

    [​IMG]

    But BEFORE I ever offered them for sale, I did back to back before and after dyno runs FIRST. And while the results were by no means astounding, they were honest and good enough for people to buy my products.

    So, come on.

    Do the damn dyno runs and be done with it. I bet you'd sell more parts. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  6. May 12, 2013 at 4:25 PM
    #586
    p05x

    p05x Active Member

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    Not enough yet.....
    Highaltitude pm sent
     
  7. May 12, 2013 at 5:10 PM
    #587
    highaltitude

    highaltitude [OP] Well-Known Member

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    I did you some dynoing once already, but since I dont own a Toyota I was not able to pinpoint the issues that prevented decent dyno results. At 150 bucks for 4 runs and not being able to show anything due to alot of unknown factors it was tough. We had guys waiting for us to get out sowere very limited.The shop is used to doing 500hp mustangs, and other ricer cars. They weren't directly ready for a truck to roll in. Their computers were setup with the wrong settings to start off with. The ABS brakes appeared to be kicking in and Im not sure if resetting the ECU would have helped. I need to track down another local truck and go back again. Being that the first time cost me over 150 dollars I want to make sure we go in there with a game plan. I have a couple guys that were waiting to drive down here. I just haven't been able to get a hold of the one shop that will do test on the weekend. I work for a large 900 employee company with only 3 of us as IT support. Its been hard for me to get time to do the tests other than on a weekend, and since I cant get a hold of them I havent done much with it lately. I've called their shop 4 times and left messages. Im not holding back other than for not having time and a truck. The other shop will only do dyno runs during the week. Its hard to take time from work with as super busy as we are. A year ago I had no job and lots of time.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  8. May 12, 2013 at 5:39 PM
    #588
    TacoCat

    TacoCat Look away, I'm hideous!

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    Can you add me to the list as well? Ill pay in the morning when im at a computer and not on my phone.

    I would be happy to drive down and do before and after dyno runs as well. Just let me know and we can figure something out. My schedule is hectic but i should be able to find a couple days off.
     
  9. May 12, 2013 at 6:27 PM
    #589
    Hughesc99

    Hughesc99 Well-Known Member

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    after reading 31 pages im subbed. gonna think this over. may or may not wait for more dyno results.
     
  10. May 12, 2013 at 7:46 PM
    #590
    tooter

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    Built for maximum low end torque, tooter II.VII intake manifold spacer, LCE long tube header, Injen long tube intake, 2,900 rpm torque peak.
    The dyno guy is supposed to know how to give you good runs. He'd be a cheat if he took your money without delivering good data... and it would be foolish to give him money without getting good data in return.

    That is not a reason. The real reason is something else.

    My measly 110hp Yaris dynoed just fine on a 2,000hp DynoJet dyno.

    No, that wouldn't have made any difference. You may need to press the button that overrides the traction control.

    The dyno guy is supposed to know how to deal with those issues. After all it's his shop, and he has to have dynoed similar vehicles. It's up to him to know what to do to give you good runs for your money. What's up with that?

    We had initial RF interference issues with my 2012 Yaris. The ECU's wireless functions were interfering with the electric brake on the dyno drum. We discovered that the solution was to simply GROUND the vehicle... and everything worked perfectly. :)

    Try that next time.

    Clip a battery jumper cable to the frame and the other end to a bolt head in the concrete floor.


    Well... then the solution is clear. Quit your job.

    (just kidding ;) )

    You're already selling spacers now even without the dyno runs, so this may just be a moot point anyways. Some definite data later on could only help your sales. :)
     
  11. May 12, 2013 at 8:02 PM
    #591
    Krazie Sj

    Krazie Sj Resident Jackass

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    To the weaslie dick face who left me this:

    For the above post.

    If you clicked the link instead of searching for your non-existent pecker you would have found this.


    [​IMG]

    Shit doesn't get much more proof positive than that. Are they massive gains? Nope. But it's not a $5½G supercharger.
     
  12. May 12, 2013 at 8:32 PM
    #592
    WailuaTaco808

    WailuaTaco808 A.L.O.H.A. Member

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    haha i got one of those^^^^^^^^^... supposedly i "dont understand as much as i think i do." What an asshat who ever left those hidden messages.







    one think i know 100% and im sure others will agree. thinking there is no proof of gains with no experience, vs experience and the dyno sheet above- makes you an idiot :brianr:
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  13. May 12, 2013 at 8:32 PM
    #593
    xmods

    xmods Super Member

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    Understood. That's why I said I couldn't speak for Toyota's. Just adding my experiences to the mix :)

    p.s. I been sub'd to your build for a while now. LOVE the headlights!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  14. May 13, 2013 at 1:04 AM
    #594
    S1000RR

    S1000RR Well-Known Member

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    What experience do you have with a dyno? I've tuned 100s of cars on a dyno for years.

    You probably think if you run the same car on a dyno back to back that the graphs would be a perfect overlay huh? lol.

    A dyno can be influenced easily. We made 15 whp increases by just placing our dyno fans directly into the intake. Hood up, hood down, temp, humidity, gear ratios, all make a huge difference.

    He couldn't even begin the run at the same RPMs since it was an auto, meaning it the ecu could have been in different load cells with different ignition timing, which is variable due to the VVTi.

    What happened with run 3? We have 2 and 4, not no 3? What about run 1? Usually run 1 is actually the strongest. Also only 4 pulls total? When a customer pays us to put his car on the dyno, we pull the hell out of it.
    Even on our dyno days when we dyno over 30 cars in a day we do more then 5 pulls.

    the 9% decrease in humidity along with the lower temp can easily account for 2hp and 8 pounds of torque.

    Either way I'm done with this thread. Unsubscribed.
     
  15. May 13, 2013 at 1:24 AM
    #595
    tooter

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    You made some relevant points from your real world experience. Even picking the worst run from the before group and the best run from the after can exaggerate the contrast.

    I would really like to see dyno runs from 1,500rpm up, or even from 1,000rpm up. In normal driving my engine never gets to 3,000. That far more convincing information could only help sales.

    I'd gladly give up gains over 3,000rpm for gains under 3,000rpm.

    I think this is one of the most fascinating threads going and will continue to follow it with great interest. :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  16. May 13, 2013 at 3:32 AM
    #596
    xmods

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    I have never dyno'd personally, but I have seen one or two done. The way I understand it, even something as small as how tight the straps are can effect the numbers?
     
  17. May 13, 2013 at 3:51 AM
    #597
    TacoCat

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    This is what I am hoping for, since under normal circumstances I shift well below the 3000 rpm threshold.
    I just ponied up the funds, OP please add me to the list as PAID.
    And I will be happy to come down and do dyno runs with before and after the IMS installed.
    I have a 6 speed manual and the only "mods" done to the engine are an AFE Stage II with pro dry filter and a TRD exhaust. Both are very common bolt ons seen on TW. I am also hoping to do the ABS disable mod in the near future, just need to get some time to do it. So if I have that in place we can remove any variables that may or may not be caused by any traction control systems. From Crom's ABS Kill Switch thread:
    If the dyno runs are a bust, I'm out $200 and change and have a nice shiny piece of aluminum and all the haters can say "I told you so". If they show significant gains, you will sell more IMS, most likely to those haters turned fair weather fans.
     
  18. May 13, 2013 at 3:58 AM
    #598
    highaltitude

    highaltitude [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Man if I had someone like you nearby I would be good to go. These are things that all make sense but I dont have a ton of tuning/dynoing experience so we are working through it as we go. I appreciate the feedback and it appears to be positive as I take it all in. I am relatively new to the area I live in, as I moved here from Colorado a few years ago so I dont really know people with your tuning knowledge around here. I'll call again today to see what I can work out with the dyno shops here.
     
  19. May 13, 2013 at 4:07 AM
    #599
    tooter

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    I'm on your side. :)

    You've already acquired some dyno experience. And I don't have a lot of tuning knowledge either, but I found a local dyno shop owner who is honest and helpful. You will too.

    It's exciting to bring a new product to market... to begin with a concept and make it a reality. It's a real life adventure and no end of fun. :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  20. May 13, 2013 at 5:57 AM
    #600
    Pugga

    Pugga Pasti-Dip Free 1983 - 2015... It was a good run

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    Thank you, the headlights are one of my favorite mods so far :) I need to get my projectors back in them though...

    No worries about the Nissan comparison but that's how this whole dyno thing got started in the first place. Nissan didn't seem to do as good of a job with their engine when it comes to low end power so adding the spacer really woke up the engine on the bottom end. Toyota seems to have done their homework and there seem to be some gains but not as drastic as on the Nissan. The only problem I have with the dyno that was posted is it starts too high in the RPM range. This is a product that's supposed to give low end gains. Much of my driving is dont in the 1,500 - 2,500 RPM range so I want to see what happens there. I want power gains for a daily driver and towing/hauling.
     
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