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Interest in shackle flip for 05+ Taco???

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by fabjunkie, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. May 4, 2012 at 6:35 AM
    #81
    NYCO

    NYCO go explore...

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  2. May 4, 2012 at 7:03 AM
    #82
    MadToy

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    I'll jump on the list......
     
  3. May 4, 2012 at 9:02 AM
    #83
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    Any opinions on this?


    It was something I never really gave any thought to, seems like some valid points regarding leaf spring longevity and shock length negating any benefit to droop.

    This is not to say the flip is a bad idea as it has many benefits just curious what the thoughts are on the negatives?
     
  4. May 4, 2012 at 12:58 PM
    #84
    fabjunkie

    fabjunkie [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Added. Thanks!

    Yes shocks will need to be longer than stock, as well as brake lines, to fully benefit the additional droop from the shackle flip.

    I guess I missed the post about the spring longevity.
    1. There's not really going to be any additional lift. And if there was, Lift does not equal droop.
    2. The spring will only get so long before it inverts. Both setups allow the spring to extend to full length. The leaf and shackle are always going to swing in the same radius. (See pic below) If your bump stops are set up correctly, then inverted springs should not be a worry. Whether one set up allows it to go negative faster, I don't know.
    3. There are many aftermarket shocks that are longer than stock.

    This is just a quick sketch to show what I mean. The shackle and spring intersect at a different point in space, but they are always going to meet at the same length fully extended. It doesn't matter where the spring hangers or shackle hangers are mounted, this will always hold true.

    The arrows show where the intersection point is in the two arcs of travel. The top one is setup like stock, with a pretty much vertical shackle angle. The bottom shackle angle is at 35*. As you can see the length's are the same between the two setups and where they intersect.

    21.47 - Length of leaf fully arched and at full extension
    20.33 - Eye to Eye of leaf when fully arched (yes I know the bushing holes are not supposed to be centered on the leaf. It's for illustrative purposes)
    2.9- Shackle length
    *The numbers are bogus but you will get the same results no matter the numbers you punch in.

    Green - Leaf
    Red- Shackle
    Cyan(blue)- Fully extended leaf spring arc of travel.
    Yellow - Shackle arc of travel

    [​IMG]
     
  5. May 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM
    #85
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense, thanks for the sketch it helps to see it along with the explanation. Will you have any info available for shock recommendations as a result of the flip?

    Did you get your prototype installed yet?
     
  6. May 4, 2012 at 1:33 PM
    #86
    arrrghhh

    arrrghhh Well-Known Member

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    Any shock will work, just make sure you cycle the suspension and measure how long of a shock you'll need...

    That's really the biggest pain, is trying to actually measure the length of shock needed (unless you have a shop!) I'm sure once people get 'em installed there will be all sorts of recommendations. I'll definitely list what I end up using, which I will probably start with some cheapos since I'm really poor right now...

    :spy: soon
     
  7. May 4, 2012 at 1:40 PM
    #87
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    I think when you get the shackles, have it all installed, then cycle the suspension and measure:
    (a) distance from lower shock mount to upper shock mount at full compression
    (b) distance from lower shock mount to upper shock mount at full droop

    Then go on the King/Fox/SAW/Bilstein/Icon's websites and find:
    (1) a shock that has full compressed length that is LESS than (a)
    (2) has a travel # that is more than (b)-(a)
    (3) has fully extended length of more than (b)

    If you can find a shock that matches criteria (1) above, but not (2) and (3), then you need limit straps.
     
  8. May 4, 2012 at 1:50 PM
    #88
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    however, since the shock mounts are not going to be modified when doing this, then you cannot go any longer than a stock sized shock, unless you get short bodies. That said, compressed length you cant go more than 15.830" according to King's website.

    And with that said, without raising the upper shock mount onto, say, a shock hoop, you will probably not be able to utilize the full range of travel a shackle flip like this will give you.
     
  9. May 4, 2012 at 2:04 PM
    #89
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    All true, I'm still contemplating what to do with the rear but I'm pretty sure I'm leaning towards staying SOA going with the shackle flip and maybe doing a little custom work to allow for longer shocks. At least that's where I'm at today. We will see what tomorrow brings.:D:
     
  10. May 4, 2012 at 2:12 PM
    #90
    blackhawke88

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    yall can do a simple shock hoop like this:
    DSC_0857_5068f5d41d34f081338e14b2aadcd07649fb5e49.jpg
     
  11. May 4, 2012 at 2:13 PM
    #91
    arrrghhh

    arrrghhh Well-Known Member

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    That would still work with an SOA setup, right? Not everyone wants/needs SUA... I would just end up seriously fucking it up on some rocks, lol.
     
  12. May 4, 2012 at 2:16 PM
    #92
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    yea, ignore the SUA set up, and just focus on the hoop. This is exactly what I am doing with my GF's truck:
    - All Pro Expo leaf pack
    - shackle flip
    - 2x4" Hydro Bumps
    - Shock hoop

    It's going to stay SOA, but we're running a 12" bypass shock, and trying to cycle all 12 inches.
     
  13. May 4, 2012 at 2:17 PM
    #93
    arrrghhh

    arrrghhh Well-Known Member

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    Nice. Would like to see something similar on my truck at some point... Rear suspension is just so very limited from the factory on these trucks.
     
  14. May 4, 2012 at 3:30 PM
    #94
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    I looked at a set-up like that before I'm just a little concerned about the hoops not being tied together or braced against lateral force. You think that might be a bit to much leverage on the hoop if you really beat hit hard?
     
  15. May 4, 2012 at 3:40 PM
    #95
    blackhawke88

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    I have the same concern and that is why we are going to do a cross brace through the bed that is removable for daily driving. The person who owns the truck in the pic, Will (FixedTRD), will also be adding a removable cross brace to his set up.
     
  16. May 4, 2012 at 3:44 PM
    #96
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    Yea, then definitely a great way to go for a mixed use vehicle. Do you already have the expo springs on the truck and a 12'' shock provides all the travel the springs would potentially use? Or are you just trying to minimize protruding into the bed?
     
  17. May 4, 2012 at 4:00 PM
    #97
    blackhawke88

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    Truck is still stock.

    We're going to try to use as much of those 12" as possible.

    We just need to cycle it at full bump, with the shock mounted to the axle, and draw a circumference with the shock fully compressed thru the upper shock eyelet. Then we do the same with the the springs fully drooped, and the shock fully extended.

    There should be two intersection points where the two circumferences meet, and the forward intersection will be where we will mount the upper shock mount.

    Ideally, that point will be inside the wheel well, and it will fit and cycle the shocks cleanly. However, if that isnt the point, then we can sacrifice and inch of up travel and down travel to make it work.
     
  18. May 4, 2012 at 4:19 PM
    #98
    rsbmg

    rsbmg Well-Known Member

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    Been talking to my fab guy about something pretty similar. If all goes as planned we can make it all work and keep cost to a minimum.
     
  19. May 5, 2012 at 11:31 AM
    #99
    fabjunkie

    fabjunkie [OP] Well-Known Member

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    As far as shocks go, it's all going to come down to personal preference, as long as the compressed/extended lengths are correct for your truck. Every truck is going to be slightly different.

    Hopefully I'll have a full review on the prototype next weekend. Waiting on the steel supplier.
     
  20. May 5, 2012 at 11:38 AM
    #100
    fabjunkie

    fabjunkie [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Another alternative for shock hoops is early Ford F250 front shock towers. They are cheap (about $20/side) from the dealer. They can be modified easily for your app and can be bolted or welded on. They also change the upper shock mount and open a whole new world of availability and cheapness as far as shocks go. I ran them on my '95 SAS and they worked great.

    Part number is E5TZ 18183A.

    [​IMG]
     

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