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King Rear Setup Advice

Discussion in 'Suspension' started by nudavinci64, Apr 20, 2017.

?

Which rear setup should replace the King 2.5 Standard Shocks

  1. King 2.5 w/ resi Rear - Spec'd for Dakar

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. King 12" rear w/ resi with new shock mount.

    10 vote(s)
    90.9%
  1. Apr 20, 2017 at 12:55 PM
    #1
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Boosted Money Pit....
    I know a lot of this will come down to what I intend to do with my setup and the performance I will get out of it.

    To start I installed King 2.5 EXT in the front and 2.5 in the rear. When I ordered I noted and ordered Dakar rears. I made this very clear and had the shop follow up with King and a couple weeks later they were ordered as they noted that King said the setup would work just fine. There in lies the problem where I come to find out there are Dakar Spec'd 2.5 rears. My bad on my part for not doing enough due diligence but I knew that guys were doing something different with Dakar rears.

    So I ended up with the regular 2.5 rear and now want to get the right setup going. Its too late to return as I have been running them for almost 5 months now.

    Thinking of a couple options:

    Going with king 12" rears and a shock relocation or getting the Dakar spec'd 2.5's and selling the standard 2.5 rears I have.

    A bit annoyed about this but partly my own fault for confirming the order after I thought all the fitment was confirmed.
     
  2. Apr 20, 2017 at 4:51 PM
    #2
    Wishbone Runner

    Wishbone Runner Because 4R

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    Just revalve the ones you have. Do you not like their ride? Would you be able to tell the difference between the "Dakar Spec'd" and what you currently have? Do you know that the valving you have is much different the the "Dakar Spec'd"?
     
  3. Apr 20, 2017 at 4:56 PM
    #3
    deeezy

    deeezy Well-Known Member

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    I might be wrong, but I think he's concerned about the extended/collapsed lengths of the stock travel shocks he got compared to the extended travel "Dakar" shocks, and not the valving.
     
  4. Apr 20, 2017 at 6:24 PM
    #4
    Wishbone Runner

    Wishbone Runner Because 4R

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    Ah, that would make sense too. Same questions then, what are the length differences, and are they a limiting factor?
     
  5. Apr 20, 2017 at 7:20 PM
    #5
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Boosted Money Pit....
    Correct, I am looking at the length not valving. What I recall is they are 1" longer and an extra 1" of droop. I'm looking for Thy extra 1" and want to match them better to the Dakars and the extended travel fronts. Except for wanting that extra 1" it has not been limited yet. But also do not want to be limited and match with the overall setup. I am sure they make a Dakar specific setup for a reason.

    Looking at my Rear, I want another inch of height and travel. Illl he adding the Dakar AAL as well to prep for my armor and bumpers.

    If I go the 12" route I'll eventually do a shackle flip to maximize travel and articulation.
     
  6. Apr 20, 2017 at 9:28 PM
    #6
    paranoid56

    paranoid56 Well-Known Member

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    get 12" and make custom mounts, your current setup is already limiting travel
     
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  7. Apr 20, 2017 at 10:48 PM
    #7
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Boosted Money Pit....
    Leaning towards that route. I was hesitant on welding new shock mounts but realize it will happen eventually.

    Still wish I had known about the longer Dakar spec'd ones outright.
     
  8. Apr 20, 2017 at 10:53 PM
    #8
    goblue82

    goblue82 Well-Known Member

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    12" kings with the shock relocation kit and dakars. Its been a dream for me.

    IMG_20170127_083331_374.jpg
     
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  9. Apr 20, 2017 at 10:55 PM
    #9
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Rock on, got some of my ideas off your build. 12", Dakars and the Shackle flip, etc. :burnrubber::drunk:
     
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  10. Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 PM
    #10
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Boosted Money Pit....
    You also may have sold me on the high clearance rear. Been going back and forth on that and lots of steel!
     
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  11. Apr 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM
    #11
    goblue82

    goblue82 Well-Known Member

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    Some shackle flip things to think about:


    Start by drawing a line between the front spring hanger and the pivot of the shackle/rear spring. Now draw the same line with the shackle flipped. As the suspension compresses, an inverted shackle will allow for more bump travel than a shackle flip. It's line will be higher. Typical responses are to either 1) extend your bumpstops or 2) allow the spring pack to go wicked negative arch.

    With that said, yes you gain some ride height (again think about the lines) and you will gain some droop. However, every single spring pack on the market is designed for the factory inverted shackle. Flip that around, and now your spring pack will be more loaded at right height when compared to the factory inverted shackle. Look at anyone who's done the flip. Their spring pack is almost flat at ride height. And since every pack is a progressive spring rate, expect your ride to be bumpier and payload decreased.
    Some people allow the springs to go more negative. But be aware, this will decrease the lifespan of the pack and make it more susceptible to breaking a leaf when flexed.

    I'm of the opinion that if your goal is anything even remotely mid to high speed, shackle flips are the wrong decision. If you are only interested in crawling, the flip will allow more droop at the consequence of less bump. Most crawlers aren't overly concerned with bump travel, but then again there are very few crawling rigs on TW. The vast majority of us are building a rig that we can keep streetable/DD and still be a weekend warrior. IMO a shackle flip doesn't accomplish that (very well).

    Also keep in mind, if you bought OE shocks, your shocks are no longer long enough to allow for the added droop travel of a shackle flip. Which means redesigning your shock mounts or new shocks. I call this never ending cycle FOTFUSE: Fix One Thing Fuck Up Something Else.

    Something else to keep in mind. A lot of the flips I've seen on TW, folks are using longer XJ shackles to get even more droop. Something people seem to forget is a shackle is a lever. The longer the shackle, the larger the lever. Pair that with the completely shit 2 ply sheet metal C-channel frame and you are asking for bent and/or cracked frames due to the frame dovetail. Hense the boxed and plated frame.

    And the last but not least tidbit on the shackle flip conversation. As I mentioned, every single pack on the market is designed for the inverted shackle. This is directly from AllPro's website for their leaf springs\
     
  12. Apr 21, 2017 at 8:07 AM
    #12
    paranoid56

    paranoid56 Well-Known Member

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    you can also do a bolt on if you dont like welding. thats what i build.
    (work in progress, still need to paint)
    IMG_8873.jpg
     
  13. Apr 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM
    #13
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Interesting.. That would make it a lot easier in deed.
     
  14. Apr 21, 2017 at 1:54 PM
    #14
    nudavinci64

    nudavinci64 [OP] Taco Outlaw

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    Makes sense, never thought of the shackle flip in that manner. Maybe that is not right path for me. I am sure I would like slow moving articulation but rock crawler it not what this rig is going to be. As you put it, I fair more on the side you are at. Travel load up mess around, mob some desert paths. May have to go the 12" smoothie route down the line. I am adding my 29XL Dakar leaf this weekend and may need to think of next steps on going with the 12" kings.
     
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  15. Apr 21, 2017 at 2:51 PM
    #15
    goblue82

    goblue82 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely. And that shackle write up was from another member which beat sense into me not to flip my shackles
     
  16. Apr 21, 2017 at 3:04 PM
    #16
    deeezy

    deeezy Well-Known Member

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    That same write up is what solidified my decision not to go with a shackle flip. I remember reading that a while back and decided not to mess with my rear suspension when it's currently doing everything pretty good on the trail.
     
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  17. Apr 21, 2017 at 3:06 PM
    #17
    goblue82

    goblue82 Well-Known Member

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    I hear ya. I'm an overland build. Not a rock crawler. Ill buy a sas junker if I wanna crawl. Lol
     
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  18. Apr 26, 2017 at 12:42 PM
    #18
    PDX_Cray

    PDX_Cray Well-Known Member

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    Very helpful thread. Thank you!
     
  19. May 27, 2017 at 5:33 PM
    #19
    5678ta

    5678ta Well-Known Member

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