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Lease Negotiations?

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by Okkine, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. Jul 7, 2008 at 7:34 PM
    #1
    Okkine

    Okkine [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Hello All,

    Having never leased/purchased a new vehicle before, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me how willing dealers are to negotiate on a lease. Is it expected that you will haggle for a better price? or are the price more set in stone for a lease?

    Also, if anyone has the Canadian :canada: dealer invoice for an '09 access cab, I4, 4x2, with the air conditioning package, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. Jul 7, 2008 at 8:20 PM
    #2
    chris4x4

    chris4x4 With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. Moderator

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    You can "Haggle" on a lease, but IMHO, a lease is a bad idea for a vehicle.
     
  3. Jul 7, 2008 at 10:09 PM
    #3
    Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey There's an evil monkey in my truck

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    It depends on your plans. If you are going to trade the car away in two or three year, a lease could be better as the payments are usually lower. If you plan to buy it at lease-end, it's better to buy it outright as you'll pay more over the long run if you lease. If you lease, you'll also want to keep your miles below the annual allowance or you'll pay a fee for every mile you're over.

    There's some good information here:
    http://www.leaseguide.com/lease03.htm
     
  4. Jul 7, 2008 at 10:14 PM
    #4
    Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Well-Known Member

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    ^^IMO leasing is only good for companies who fleet. Pride of ownership I say! It's like you're just renting the truck when you lease. Tacomas have phenominal resale value. Own one. You'll benefit!
     
  5. Jul 7, 2008 at 10:36 PM
    #5
    genxer36

    genxer36 Lord of Tomfoolery

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    I have leased & lost. I will never lease again! Be careful on the lease. Only think about it if you drive less than 12,000 miles a year. Also never talk financing with the dealer until you have negotiated your best price. It is best to finance with a credit union or your bank.

    Check carsdirect.com or edmunds.com for best price with options in your area. I ran the numbers on carsdirect (in my area just to see) and it came back with Tacoma DC 2wd pretty loaded. @ $1700 below invoice. I have haggled below the best price(on carsdirect) before, when I bought my Tacoma in 03. Always print off this info & take to a dealer. It gives you leverage. And something to look at when negotiating.

    A friend bought a new accord recently & told the sales person if he shoots him straight he will by a car from him that day. If not he will go somewhere else. The sales person told him not to take the 1st 2 offers. The 3rd offer will be the best deal.


    Good luck & welcome to TW!
    Sean
     
  6. Jul 8, 2008 at 4:12 AM
    #6
    Janster

    Janster Old & Forgetful

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    If you're only planning on keeping the truck for a couple years - a lease is better/cheaper....as the monthly payments are lower. However - at the end of the lease - you have NOTHING. Leases are 'bad' in a sense that they limit your mileage usage per year and they can dock you for every little dent/damage on the truck.

    Although...in certain situations - it doesn't harm you either. It all depends...

    Many many years ago - my husband (we weren't married at the time) had a 5 year lease on an Acura. Part of his reason for leasing - was because he didn't have a downpayment & he wanted to build-up his credit. After about 4 years of paying on the lease.... he decided to trade it for something else. The car was worth a lot more than the payout - and he was able to use that as a good downpayment for something else (Subaru).

    But for the most part - if you plan on keeping the truck for a long time....do your best to purchase it outright.
     
  7. Jul 8, 2008 at 4:29 AM
    #7
    Imrubicon

    Imrubicon Wife thinks I am done Modding truck

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    A lease is one way of driving a car or truck you cannot afford in other words DONT
     
  8. Jul 8, 2008 at 7:14 AM
    #8
    Angus_NB

    Angus_NB Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have the cash to buy a vehicle there's not much difference between leasing and borrowing the money to buy.
    In most cases you are not going to pay the vehicle off in four years so either way if you plan to keep the vehicle you will still owe money on it after four years.
    Right now leasing in Canada will give you lower payments over the first 4 years then you can either buy it out or return it. You can also buy it out at any time during the lease.
    If you drive less than 24,000 km a year and take care of the truck leasing is not a bad option.
    Lease, you pay tax on the lease payment.
    Buy, you usually borrow the money for the taxes too and pay interest on it.

    I don't know if you'll ever find invoice pricing in Canada. Toyota Canada and their dealers do there best to hide how much they make on a vehicle.
     
  9. Jul 8, 2008 at 7:24 AM
    #9
    zmtnbik

    zmtnbik FMLYHM

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    +10000000000000000000000

    If you can't afford it, wait until you can, or buy used.
    I guarantee you will have "leasers" remorse after you drive the truck off the lot.
    To echo genxer's comments, I too leased and lost. Why, because I had no money, poor credit and needed a car. 6 months after leasing my truck, I had a career change. As a result, my 5 mile commute turned into a 90 mile commute. At the end of 2 years, my truck had 80,000, instead of 20,000 that I was allowed. The only way to get out of paying the $6,000 in excess mileage, was to lease again. Fortunately I did not have the same mileage issues, as I moved. Since then I have never leased again!

    Just another example of the negatives of leasing. Good luck with whatever you decide.
     
  10. Jul 8, 2008 at 11:42 AM
    #10
    genxer36

    genxer36 Lord of Tomfoolery

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    If you lease the only way to win or come out somewhat ahead, is not to lease more than 3 years. Second never lease a vehicle that doesn't have a good resale value. You would be upside down if you decided to get out of the lease no matter how long the lease was.

    Leasing & financing are not the same thing. Financing - you are building equity in the vehicle & in a few years owe less than it is worth & eventually own the vehicle. Leasing- you are paying the interest on the vehicle only. You end up paying many thousands more for a vehicle because none of the equity is touched. And if you buy the vehicle at the end you are way in the hole. At the end of a lease in say 3 years. The truck to buy would be $16,000, after 3 years of financing it you may owe $12,000. I have been down this road when I was younger & didn't know better. You are always better buying.

    Good luck,
    Sean
     
  11. Jul 8, 2008 at 2:10 PM
    #11
    Angus_NB

    Angus_NB Well-Known Member

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    Leasing is different in Canada than it is in the US, for Toyota anyway. My lease payments are not just the interest on the vehicle.
    I leased my '05 after showing my bank manager (Credit Union) the numbers. After 4 years the buyout is a few dollars less than what I would owe if I had borrowed the money.
    Ford, GM and Chrysler have leases that after 3-4 years the buyout is a lot higher than the vehicle is worth. They do this to get the payments lower and also trap you into having to lease another vehicle from them. My payments were very close to what my payments would have been if I had borrowed the money, within $20.00.
    You are correct when you say only lease a vehicle with good resale value. For me, on this vehicle, leasing was ok. Without seeing the numbers we have no way of knowing if it's a good lease or not.
     
  12. Jul 8, 2008 at 2:16 PM
    #12
    Angus_NB

    Angus_NB Well-Known Member

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    Like I was saying to genxer, my lease from Toyota Canada isn't like that. If you haven't got good enough credit to get a loan you wouldn't get a lease either.
    I'm not saying that leasing is the best solution but it's not as scary as it is in the US.
    I leased mine because in '05 the Tacoma was a new design and I didn't want to be committed to it for more than four years.
     
  13. Jul 8, 2008 at 3:07 PM
    #13
    genxer36

    genxer36 Lord of Tomfoolery

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    Wow! Good to hear leasing is better in Canada than in the US. Because here you get screwed from every angle here.
     
  14. Jul 8, 2008 at 6:59 PM
    #14
    Okkine

    Okkine [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Yep, doing some quick math based on the MSRP, leasing and then buying it out at the end will actually cost me between $500 and $1000 less than purchasing depending on whether it's a 4 or 5 year purchase finance. I would still be concerned with going over the alloted 24000km(14913miles)/year, plus the possibility of dings and scratches.

    Five Year Purchase Finance

    60 payments of $294.67 + $8000 down = $25680.20

    Four Year Lease
    48 payments of 134.68 + $8000 Down + $10174.85 buy out = $24636.61

    *EDIT*

    Granted that's based on the dealer rate of 5.9%. I still need to see what kind of rate the bank would give me.
     
  15. Jul 8, 2008 at 7:58 PM
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    genxer36

    genxer36 Lord of Tomfoolery

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    Some good do's & dont's with leasing:

    http://www.leasetips.com/dos_and_donts.htm

    http://www.nationwide.com/newsroom/leasing-a-car.jsp

    http://www.forbesautos.com/advice/financing/leasing/car-leasing-dos-donts.html

    I would not put any money down on a lease. Or put a small amount. That is like throwing that money away.
     
  16. Jul 9, 2008 at 3:20 AM
    #16
    Angus_NB

    Angus_NB Well-Known Member

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    genxer is right, it's not a good idea to put money down on a lease. If you put money down do it as a damage deposit not a down payment. With a deposit you get the money back at the end. If the dealer pretends to not know what you are talking about don't put any money down. Invest it and use it for the buyout.
     
  17. Jul 9, 2008 at 4:56 AM
    #17
    Imrubicon

    Imrubicon Wife thinks I am done Modding truck

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    Shhh! the wife thinks I dont do mods on trucks anymore
    Who in their right mind puts $8000 down on a lease ?
    Almost everyone I know of that screwed up andleased did it because they couldnt afford the car in the first place.
    Most lease's ask for $1000 or so + TTL so in that math you just plain LOSE WITH A LEASE as in loser big time .
    leasing is a big book of paper showing payments at the end of three or four years and most likely a large bill because you drove over the mileage.
    If you read almost any of the reports out on the web not made by the car dealers they almost all say it is a stupid move
     
  18. Jul 9, 2008 at 12:20 PM
    #18
    Angus_NB

    Angus_NB Well-Known Member

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    But the reports are all based on the US leasing method.

    From the description of the lease deals in the US I don't know why anyone would lease but as I've pointed out it's different here.
     
  19. Jul 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM
    #19
    Okkine

    Okkine [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Leasing does look more reasonable here in Canada compared to the US.

    Angus, Genxer, what's your reason for saying not to put money down on the lease? I was thinking that I could save a significant amount of interest by paying as much as I can up front.
     
  20. Jul 9, 2008 at 4:33 PM
    #20
    genxer36

    genxer36 Lord of Tomfoolery

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    I vote never ever, on putting money down on a lease. Also on leases in general.

    Because you will basically loose that money. And the dealer may see you have that money & reconfigure the lease so they get most of it & you loose in the end. What happens if you put all that money down on the lease, then go way over the mileage in the end? I did that on one I leased, owed $6,000 for over the miles. I had to buy the vehicle & had to finance another 3 years to pay it off. So it took me 7 years to pay it off. Think of all the interest I paid. If I would have just found an affordable vehicle & financed it.

    You are much better off investing the money or even putting it in savings. If you have that much to put towards the vehicle, then why not finance the rest to purchase the truck? This way you will always be way ahead of the curve on owing less than it is worth. You will save much more on interest that way. Even though as quoted "leasing in CA is about even money to financing". At the end of the lease you still owe a huge chunk to buy the vehicle. Where financing you wouldn't owe that much, if anything. I checked my truck value a few months ago. I owe $9000 & the truck is worth from $16,000 to $19,000. I financed 100% of my truck. I did get a great deal when I bought it, about $7,000 of sticker with my add-ons.

    Also remember this when leasing. If you turn the vehicle back in, not only dents & dings. But if it needs any repair work they will charge you for that too.

    Good luck!
    Sean
     
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