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Lithium Ion Battery Replacement

Discussion in '2nd Gen. Tacomas (2005-2015)' started by 12TRDTacoma, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Mar 12, 2014 at 11:52 PM
    #1
    12TRDTacoma

    12TRDTacoma [OP] Pulley Man ;)

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  2. Mar 13, 2014 at 12:10 AM
    #2
    VE7OSR

    VE7OSR 'interfering with Natural Selection since 1990'

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    looks like their amp-hour rating is meant for motorbikes, not full size vehicle.
     
  3. Mar 13, 2014 at 1:55 AM
    #3
    ZEROPILOT

    ZEROPILOT Can't re-MEMBER

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    LARGER WHEELS. DIFFERENT STEREO. PUSH BAR. TAILGATE EXTENDER. WIPER MOD. TPMS LIGHT DELETE MOD.
    The first battery is a riding mower/powersports battery. It claims to fit a "Race car". The second one is a heavy application bike battery. Both are nutty expensive. Are you looking for a truck replacement or for a different vehicle?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  4. Mar 13, 2014 at 5:30 AM
    #4
    speedjunkie13

    speedjunkie13 Well-Known Member

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    I'll let somebody else who understands all this stuff better explain it all, but personally i wouldn't run one of these. The main advantage is weight savings, which is why you normally only see these in racing applications. For a truck that's a daily driver, i see no need for this. you could buy 2-3 normal batteries for the same price.
     
  5. Mar 13, 2014 at 6:19 AM
    #5
    TheMuffinMan

    TheMuffinMan Banana Nut

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    I've known several people who ran these types of batteries in their motorcycles. They work great until it gets cold out (below 45-50°F). Then the batteries only start their bikes some of the time.

    Supposedly you're supposed to crank the engine for a bit and the let it sit as that "warms" up the battery internally, and then you should be able to start it when cold. I've known people that this has worked for, and that it hasn't worked for; which is the last thing you want in the middle of no where.

    All I know is when I try and start my motor vehicle I want it to start every time no if's, and's, or but's.. Not to mention the weight savings on a truck are minimal compared to the total vehicle weight, but even then I'd take reliable starts over iffy starting.
     
  6. Mar 13, 2014 at 6:33 AM
    #6
    transplant

    transplant resident know-nothing

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    your truck should have a 3000W starter. so at minimum you need (3000/12=cca) 250A to start your truck ONCE. take that into account and multiple charges and discharges... temperature (responding to someones comment about temp -some li batts actually have heaters!) and i wouldnt put anything that wasnt 60% more than what i needed for a single start in optimal weather ~70F i believe.

    Id say that leaves you with a minimum CCA of 400-450.

    i didnt even open the links, but if its a DD, why even bother? your truck was designed with a lead acid or SLAB, why deviate?
     
  7. Mar 13, 2014 at 6:54 AM
    #7
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    I would never put a Lithium-Ion battery in a vehicle, they are not all that stable and there have been a large amount of fire/explosions in vehicles, aircraft and boats as a result of them failing. Not recommended. I uses them in alot of my R/C aircraft as well as for work and have had numerous times where I had a fire, explosion.


    http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/n...m-ion-battery-safety-forum-next-month-in-d-c/
     
  8. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:05 AM
    #8
    12TRDTacoma

    12TRDTacoma [OP] Pulley Man ;)

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    Wow to all the responses here. Especially the last one. I guess my biggest thing is shaving some weight off of the stocker. I have looked into Braille, which then led me to look into the Deka ETX series because apparently Brailles are rebranded Deka's. I do some very high speed wheeling on rough terrain and shaving some weight off the battery would be a good thing mainly because I have heard of people bending the stock battery metal tray during high speed wheeling. I don't want the same to happen to me so I'm just looking into alternatives. I figured I'd get some opinions on Li-ion.
     
  9. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:10 AM
    #9
    SoCaltaco65

    SoCaltaco65 Well-Known Member

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    If youre long travel and punching the skinny petal thru the floorboard then yes you need a lighter or move your battery to the bed, I have an LT setup but mostly crawl with an occasion of fast wash runs in the des and havent had any issues yet with a stock sized battery. And my truck is very heavy with all the armor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  10. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:24 AM
    #10
    BamaToy1997

    BamaToy1997 Wheel Bearing Master

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    In a short answer, YES, their CCA is a big factor. CCA is what starts the engine. Alternator output and reserve capacity of the battery is what matters for winching and stereos.
     
  11. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:30 AM
    #11
    12TRDTacoma

    12TRDTacoma [OP] Pulley Man ;)

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    Being an MT I do a lot of wash runs and probably get the truck airborne more times then I realize. I would really prefer to keep the battery in the stock location due to security issues with random passer byers out on the streets. Any suggestions on a good strong lightweight battery out? I thought Braille would be good but obviously they are highly over rated CCA wise and from the track record I noticed these type of batteries were only lasting a good year on other forums (corvette is where I found the longevity issue at).

    I know cranking amperage is a factor, I just didn't think our starters needed close to the 1000 rating just to get it fired up.
     
  12. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:35 AM
    #12
    transplant

    transplant resident know-nothing

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    this is primarily due to improper storage or continuous high current discharge. thermal runaway is a danger in any battery but in li ion the results are a bit more spectacular. i wouldnt be so concerned with the danger of fire or explosion with proper use as i would be with deep cycle capacity. li ion are more purposed towards repeated complete discharge without damage or battery "memory".

    you use plenty of devices containing lithium batteries daily

    op, if high speed wheeling is your thing, relocating your battery may be your best option. there are a few people on here ive seen with nice set ups. a sealed battery in the cab or a vented battery in a mount somewhere would be a smarter idea than attempting a li swap.
     
  13. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:38 AM
    #13
    transplant

    transplant resident know-nothing

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    they dont. your factiry battery is not a deep cycle marine battery. its probably closer to 550 CCA. like i said your starter is a 3000W starter and the instant current draw in perfect conditions is about 250A
     
  14. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:48 AM
    #14
    transplant

    transplant resident know-nothing

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    side note:

    that article is more than a year old. the results of the nthsb is more what youd be interested in. at one point, people were so scared of lithium batteries they were not allowed in the mail or on airplanes. this is no longer the case as their good name has been cleared for the most part. the dangers of thermal runaway as i said before are equally as present in any battery. read up more on them and the findings of the nthsb.

    the only thing i would be concerned about is the battery life. theyre really not cheap and not exactly designed for the demands of starting a vehicle. but for those with the money and the weight demands.... by all means! find one within your ampere rating and go to town. just dont be surprised when it dies quickly
     
  15. Mar 13, 2014 at 7:58 AM
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    12TRDTacoma

    12TRDTacoma [OP] Pulley Man ;)

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    Yeah true. I hear they go without warning leaving you essentially stranded. Which negates any pros in weight savings they have.
     
  16. Mar 13, 2014 at 8:00 AM
    #16
    VE7OSR

    VE7OSR 'interfering with Natural Selection since 1990'

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    you could parallel two of them together, and still have some weight savings, but very expensive then.
     
  17. Mar 13, 2014 at 8:07 AM
    #17
    12TRDTacoma

    12TRDTacoma [OP] Pulley Man ;)

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    True. There is the parallel option. Even if I was to use the Ballistics. Or take two Deka ETX20 OR 30L's and run them parallel too.
     
  18. Mar 13, 2014 at 8:11 AM
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    12TRDTacoma

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    Bear in mind that those Ballistic batteries are not full Li-ion batteries too. They are Lithium Iron Phosphates.
     
  19. Mar 13, 2014 at 8:18 AM
    #19
    SoCaltaco65

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    Personal products use a magnesium based Ion battery which is indeed safer, however the majority of large discharge ion batteries are still cobalt based and not as stable. Granted in recent years manufacturing process techniques along with new chemistry are improving the reliability and safety. I still would not use one in my vehicle.
     
  20. Mar 13, 2014 at 8:43 AM
    #20
    InSight Retrofits

    InSight Retrofits Official Vendor

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    We just got these in at work the other day for Motorcycles/ATV


    They are crazy light! A battery that would normally weigh 25-30lbs probably isn't even touching 5lbs. And they have a built in little test button that tells you how charged it is.

    Crazy technology, but the price tag for even the smallest (4LB-S) battery is $100 and they go up to $300.
     

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