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Long Travel information.

Discussion in 'Long Travel Suspension' started by mjp2, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. Oct 13, 2009 at 3:11 PM
    #21
    amaes

    amaes Cuz Stock Sucks

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    Ok that make sence then. I do completely understand the simple is easier concept. I was just wondering because from what it looks like a linked in rear get more travel and you can adjust them for how much you want. But there is alot of geometry to factor in. Also on the TC 5 lug video it has a linked rear and it seems to land a lot smother then a leaf pack setup. On TTORA I've seen a lot of pictures and videos from some of the LT guys' rigs and the rear hops around like a pogo stick once it hits the ground. but maybe this is because the lack of weight in the back.
     
  2. Oct 13, 2009 at 3:56 PM
    #22
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    Some LT guys haven't done the rear of their trucks yet, and many of the ones that have haven't spent the time to dial in the shocks. Proper shock valving has a lot to do with it.

    The video posted by MonkeyProof is an excellent comparison of how most trucks perform versus how a properly setup truck should run.
    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tacoma-videos/53920-all-pro.html#post971490

    Watch the pass at the 2:00 mark, and then watch the blue truck fly through the same section at 2:30. The difference is night and day.

    Last year I took my truck through Barstow and broke bad. It was set up completely wrong both front and rear and was punished for it. That blue truck was with us that day and flew through the sections that snapped my suspension. He seemed to float over the terrain.

    Test and tune is huge after the build is complete, but most guys pick up their rigs from the shop and start beating on them without dialing them in. To be fair, they have a freaking blast doing it too! :) I understand since that's exactly what I did, but on my setup it was clear I had some major rework to do as I flat out had the wrong suspension system for the terrain and it just wasn't enjoyable.

    I've made some huge changes in the past year, and I've got many hours of that ahead of me before I enter another race.
     
  3. Oct 13, 2009 at 11:28 PM
    #23
    amaes

    amaes Cuz Stock Sucks

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    Yeah thats day and night. That blue truck is smooth as butter. See thats what I've always seen with the Linked rear is how smooth it is. But I can see how just spending the time to dial it in makes it all worth it. That silver one would have flipped forward if it was going faster and a little bigger bump.
     
  4. Oct 14, 2009 at 5:35 PM
    #24
    Rippin101

    Rippin101 Well-Known Member

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  5. Oct 17, 2009 at 6:29 PM
    #25
    mreimann

    mreimann vv I think it's growing

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    So what are the different ways to tune the suspension? Like why would you valve your shocks one way over the other and how does that effect the performance?

    I know it's a major part of racing, i've just never known what it does:notsure:
     
  6. Oct 17, 2009 at 6:36 PM
    #26
    MonkeyProof

    MonkeyProof Power Top

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    nice write up!!!

    i'll be adding some more maybe for suggestions when i have more time later tonight
     
  7. Oct 20, 2009 at 8:01 AM
    #27
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    I'm not purposely avoiding this question. I've just been really busy with work and it's going to take some time to explain this properly.

    I'll post up a proper response in the next several hours.
     
  8. Oct 20, 2009 at 8:46 AM
    #28
    HBMurphy

    HBMurphy Ban Pending

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    If someone drives this ANYWHERE - It's okay for you to have a LT as a DD!
    :D

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Oct 20, 2009 at 10:40 AM
    #29
    ColdZeroBSP

    ColdZeroBSP Yo homie, that my briefcase?

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    Sorry to sound ignorant, but what exactly is a long travel?
     
  10. Oct 20, 2009 at 10:47 AM
    #30
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    Increasing the amount the vehicle's suspension cycles beyond the installation of shocks or coilovers. On IFS it usually involves wider upper and lower control arms and all the peripheral stuff to make it work properly. On solid axles, it involves installing longer, softer leaf springs or a 4-link suspension.
     
  11. Oct 20, 2009 at 11:15 AM
    #31
    Loudpedal

    Loudpedal Mind = Blown

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    Awesome write-up. Rep coming. Other than pushing and the need for a rear sway bar, did you notice any other steering issues? Such as more or less maneuverability in tight situations (ie parking garage)?
     
  12. Oct 20, 2009 at 11:26 AM
    #32
    derekabraham

    derekabraham Living vicariously through everybody

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  13. Oct 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM
    #33
    dtrujillo63

    dtrujillo63 Well-Known Member

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    Derek, when are you going LT? Just a tip, driving one of the cartels mini vans through the border would cover the cost of the kit. LOL.
     
  14. Oct 20, 2009 at 1:13 PM
    #34
    mreimann

    mreimann vv I think it's growing

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    Don't stress it, i know my question kinda covered a lot of ground:eek:
     
  15. Oct 20, 2009 at 8:27 PM
    #35
    mjp2

    mjp2 [OP] Living vicariously though myself Thor

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    You want the suspension to absorb as much of the terrain as possible without allowing the vehicle to bounce all over the place. The more the tires stay in contact with the ground, the more control the driver has over the vehicle.

    Shock valving and tuning is dependent on vehicle weight, unsprung weight, spring rates, wheel travel, anticipated terrain, etc. Most race and many built desert play vehicles run bypass shocks. These allow for external adjustments and varying levels of dampening at different points in the suspension travel.

    The bypass tubes allow the shock oil to flow around the internal shim stack in the shock body. The location and the valving of each bypass tube determine where in the shock travel, in what direction, and how much fluid flows. Through that it's possible to increase or decrease dampening at different points on either the compression or rebound stroke.

    Below is a picture of some 3-tube bypass shocks with remote reservoirs:
    0701091128.jpg

    On these, the 2 blue valves are for compression and the red one is for rebound. Note how the tube ends are staggered. Shock oil flows through a tube when the internal shock piston is between the two ends of that tube. In the case of these specific shocks, oil flows through both compression tubes during the initial compression stroke. Once past the end of the shorter tube, oil only flows through 1 tube and thus provides more dampening as the suspension compresses. When the internal piston passes the end of this tube, the internal shim stack alone controls the dampening and the shock can act like a hydraulic bumpstop.

    Externally adjustable valves on each tube allow for easy tuning without the need to disassemble the shocks or even remove them from the vehicle. During testing, it helps to video record multiple passes over the same terrain between adjustments to see the effects of the tuning beyond just vehicle feel.

    Shock temperature also factors into the equation. As shocks heat up they lose dampening. Generally speaking, larger diameter remote reservoir shocks hold more oil and resist overheating better than smaller diameter emulsion shocks. Bypass tubes also increase surface area to dissipate heat and further reduce shock fade.
     
  16. Oct 20, 2009 at 8:39 PM
    #36
    ColtsTRD

    ColtsTRD .....

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    x2 Good lookin out bud :cool:
     
  17. Oct 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM
    #37
    MonkeyProof

    MonkeyProof Power Top

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    his pass was at 75mph and honestly he prolly coulda gone even faster :eek:


    that was my 2nd pre-run through the desert..had the All Pro LT kit on for only 3 weeks at that time..no adjustments made to the suspension front or rear, was still breaking it all in before i decided what needs to be adjusted/tuned..everything was straight off the shelf out of the box
     
  18. Oct 20, 2009 at 10:03 PM
    #38
    mreimann

    mreimann vv I think it's growing

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    Wow man, that was a great explanation. Thanks for going so in depth with it. Makes a lot more sense now:goingcrazy:
     
  19. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:12 PM
    #39
    dysfunctnlretard

    dysfunctnlretard Hi

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    Question for you LT guys: I just got my truck in June so Im gonna get some coilovers until I pay off my truck, and then save up for a LT kit. My plan was to get a leaf pack for rear, fox shocks, and some 3.5" TC spindles for the front so I dont have to preload my springs and I can get the full benefits of a shock. When I go LT in the future, will these spindles still work with the LT kit? Does an LT kit add any height to your ride? Or just width?
     
  20. Nov 12, 2009 at 9:23 PM
    #40
    blackhawke88

    blackhawke88 wo ai ni bao bei ^_^

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    ^ you can still use those spindles. LT mainly makes you wider, but depending on what springs you choose, you can be higher or lower.
     
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