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Military Academy=Military Service?

Discussion in 'Military' started by jeckel7234, Nov 11, 2012.

?

Academy = Service

Poll closed Dec 11, 2012.
  1. Good Enough

    3 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Not Quite

    68 vote(s)
    95.8%
  1. Nov 11, 2012 at 12:04 PM
    #21
    Warputer

    Warputer Dirt Road Inspector

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    Enough modifications to piss the wife off!!
    I work with a guy like this.....medical out during boot camp but talks quite often like he fought around the world for the military. They deserve their benefits for whatever the physical issue is/was but as far as the made up stories go, they make me sick to my stomach. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Nov 11, 2012 at 12:09 PM
    #22
    KodiakToyTRD

    KodiakToyTRD Well-Known Member

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    He'd already signed all the paperwork, raised his right hand, took his oath and was working for the military. However, I'm curious why they are giving him benefits, unless it was their fault, (faulty equipment, safety standards not followed, etc).

    Boot camp counts towards time in service, but separating in boot camp before having done anything does not make you veteran.
     
  3. Nov 11, 2012 at 1:04 PM
    #23
    bluesurfur

    bluesurfur Active Member

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    FEDERAL DEFINITION: under Federal Law a VETERAN is any person, who served honorably on active duty in the armed forces of the United States. (Discharges marked GENERAL AND UNDER HONORABLE CONDITIONS also qualify.)

    I don't think someone in Basic for a couple of weeks should be considered a Veteran...However, if you get hurt and discharged while serving on Active Duty status and you weren't breaking any laws (or anything else deserving of a dishonorable discharge) you will be considered a Disabled Veteran. The benefits received will be decided by a medical board.

    A service member with one day on Active Duty has the potential to be deemed a " Disabled Veteran" by the U.S. Veteran Affairs and is eligible for life long benefits.
     
  4. Nov 11, 2012 at 4:07 PM
    #24
    RyanLikesTacos

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  5. Nov 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM
    #25
    ckeeton

    ckeeton Bazinga

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    I'm at military school, given not an academy, but know some guys at the academy and none think that it counts as service.
     
  6. Nov 11, 2012 at 4:47 PM
    #26
    Monster Coma

    Monster Coma Well-Known Member

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    It's not service at all. Just like my 2 years spent in ROTC is not service. Having lived at West Point for 3 years I know there are a lot of kids that go to the academies because it's 2 years of free schooling and then you can transfer somewhere else. Sure you may train with others that are joining the military but it is not considered serving until you sign a contract and have a duty station, at least IMO.
     
  7. Nov 11, 2012 at 5:09 PM
    #27
    RyanLikesTacos

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    Its not really a matter of opinion, its fact.

    I work with several Air Force Academy grads, non of which claim it as service. It may have been alot less fun than I had in college, but just like ROTC, your TIS begins at your enter to active duty date.

    The only stipulation, from what I understand, is it does count towards a civilian federal retirement. So if you did 4 years at a service academy, then commissioned and did, say, 4 years, your military TIS is 4 years but if you were hired on with a federal agency, your pay step would be based on 8 years. It doesnt work the other way around though. If you work for a federal agency for 4 years and join the military, you don't have 4 years TIS on day one of military service.

    People leave the academy or ROTC for a wide array of reasons, just like Joe Blow quit his job at Walmart because he didnt like his boss or being told what to do.

    What boggles me are those that quit the academy and then enlist. I was enlisted for 10.5 years and commissioned while an E-6 and am now an O-1E (closing in on O-2E) and have now seen both sides. You will always have a boss and someone with more stripes or brass telling you what to do.

    If this kid thinks going to a military service academy and quitting is something to brag about, hes an idiot. My suggestion is do your PME and whatever job related advancement you can and become HIS boss.
     
  8. Nov 11, 2012 at 6:27 PM
    #28
    tacomathom

    tacomathom Well-Known Member

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    I work at the commissary on an Air Force base. I deal with people like this all the time, some young, some have been wards of the government for decades. When I see that tan ID card (like my wife & grandson have), well I don't have any respect for you unless you have a Purple Heart. I'm nice to all my customers, but don't try to tell me you're a veteran because I'll show you my back & walk away. If person doesn't graduate from basic training, OCS or a service academy, you are not a veteran regardless of what your ID reads.
     
  9. Nov 13, 2012 at 8:14 AM
    #29
    MadMtnMikey

    MadMtnMikey Well-Known Member

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    Exactly... and while some people are deserving of some of these benefits, it's just like the Unions, others abuse it and just want to "buck the system"... I'm an ex submarine sonar tech, I did one term and got out... I heard of a lot of guys that learned about all the little disability benefits you can claim when getting out, and a lot of the sonar techs were getting audiograms and getting 10% disability for life. Granted 10% for an E-4 getting out after one term is pocket change, multiply that by tens of thousands military wide, and now you've got a substantial chunk of tax payer dollars. It's a controversial issue though and everyone will feel differently about that kind of stuff.
     
  10. Nov 13, 2012 at 10:22 AM
    #30
    12TRDTacoma

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    :laughing: HAHAHAHAHA!!!

    One word describes that guy. Shitbag.
     
  11. Nov 13, 2012 at 3:56 PM
    #31
    JustBeGood

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    Here's the answer: At the two year point in the AF Academy, cadets are given the opportunity to withdrawal and pay back thousands of dollars for the education already received. If they decide to continue on to their Junior year, they have to sign a document more or less saying they pledge to finish and be commissioned at the end of four years. If for some reason, the cadet is dismissed during their junior or senior year, they will have to enter the AF as an enlisted Airman and perform a minimum 8 year hitch with the last 2-4 being fulfilled in inactive reserve status.

    He probably has a CAC because he lost one at one point, had another made, then found the one he lost.(happens quite often)

    BTW, in NOOOOOOOOOOO way (official or unofficial) is he considered a veteran!

    I'm an AF AD SMSgt
     
  12. Nov 13, 2012 at 6:11 PM
    #32
    jeckel7234

    jeckel7234 [OP] Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the research put in this, surprisingly I havent seen him since I put this up. It blows my mind when people act/lie like that
     
  13. Nov 13, 2012 at 7:20 PM
    #33
    TrdSurgie

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    You sound very bitter.... so you dont respect retired Military? One doesnt have to be injured to have given all. I expect more from a retired Chief.
     
  14. Nov 14, 2012 at 8:59 AM
    #34
    BuzzardsGottaEat

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    haha I got hurt, they didn't even give half of us purple hearts. Your flippin ribbons don't make you a vet.

    Service in a brach of the armed forces = veteran.

    service in combat = combat veteran.

    went to a class on how to be a boot-tenant = civilian.
     
  15. Nov 14, 2012 at 9:51 AM
    #35
    Monster Coma

    Monster Coma Well-Known Member

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    so you don't respect your wife or grandson? Interesting.
     
  16. Nov 14, 2012 at 10:07 AM
    #36
    lodi781

    lodi781 Alexander Supertramp

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    what seems to bother me about this is his non-chalant way of leaving the academy ( Politics?) Those spots are very hard to come by and I know a few of my friends who would have loved to have his AND been Excellent service members. ( Actually, two are, they went to college privately and joined anyway)
     
  17. Nov 14, 2012 at 10:55 AM
    #37
    1ugly baby

    1ugly baby Active Member

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    I had a friend that was an academic failure at West Point. He had to enlist to pay for his time or obligation. We went through AIT together, damn good soldier too. Is this still the case? The time frame was back in 94' though.
    Sounds like you co-worker has the could have, should have syndrome.

    No graduation from basic, not a vet
    No commision from a service academy, not a vet.
     
  18. Nov 14, 2012 at 11:17 AM
    #38
    brian

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    Wouldn't you still technically get one even if you were academy?
     
  19. Nov 14, 2012 at 11:43 AM
    #39
    BamaToy1997

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    Depends on his attitude. If he states in advance that he was injured in basic while trying to serve his country, I could respect that. If he acts like he is some big shot vet who got injured on duty like he was overseas, then I would call him a scumbag.

    Unless things have changed over the years, your TIS starts the day you signed your contract and were sworn in. I was sworn in and signed my contract with the USMC on 10 November, 1986 for 8 years. I graduated high school in 1987 and went to basic training summer of 1987, and my contract ended on 10 November, 1994. Full TIS was 8 years.

    You get a DD-214 when separated or transferring from active duty status. You are not on active duty when in school, hence he would have never received one.
     
  20. Nov 14, 2012 at 12:49 PM
    #40
    Evil Monkey

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    Time at the academy does not equal time in service (it doesn't count toward your retirement in calculating the number of years served). From the office of SecDef:
    http://militarypay.defense.gov/retirement/ad/19_faqs.html#Q2

    It does count as federal service.

    It is considered Active Duty:
    37 USC 101(18) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty in the active service of a uniformed service, and includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, full-time National Guard duty, and attendance, while in the active service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned."

    38 USC 101(b)(21) states, "The term 'active duty' means service as a cadet at the United States Military, Air Force, or Coast Guard Academy, or as a midshipman at the United States Naval Academy."

    38 USC 1965(1)(d) states, "The term 'active duty' means full-time duty as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, United States Naval Academy, United States Air Force Academy, or the United States Coast Guard Academy."


    It's probably just not well known since most active duty aren't exposed to cadets or midshipmen on a regular basis.
     
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